# North Korean top general purged — more **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979 "2013-12-10T15:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/41 "2013-12-14T01:59:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _making all participants break into enthusiastic cheers that shook the conference hall_ The Damocles of summary execution will tend to have that effect. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/42 "2013-12-14T19:22:18Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > . Because if you don’t clap, cheer, or cry hard enough when it’s expected of you, you’ve committed a crime against the state and will be under suspicion for treason. This was true of Stalin’s Russia ,too. I know a man who was a child at the time Stalin died. He told me that his entire school was lined up and told to cry for Papa Stalin. And he did…Even children understood what would happen to you if you invited suspicion on your self or your family. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/43 "2013-12-14T19:45:07Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > And so, for anyone interested, my following link may be the only long-term way to read the full story: > > [http://tinyurl.com/mym592n](http://tinyurl.com/mym592n) > > The above link, which I hosted on Google Sites, may thus be the only way to obtain the full “Traitor Jang Song Thaek Executed” news story. > > Depending on your browser, clicking on my link may cause a download of the web page as a file, which must then be launched. Is it okay to click on that link? Has anyone else done it yet? I would like to know the whole story without going to a NK website. ---
**Author:** ![Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kansas_Beekeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/44 "2013-12-14T20:18:00Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Is it okay to click on that link? Has anyone else done it yet? I would like to know the whole story without going to a NK website. Yes, I did it. I had to download the file, but it was fine. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/45 "2013-12-14T20:56:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: > At least they tried to identify actual crimes and had a trial, no matter how much of a show. The US on the other hand, just[perfers to kill some without such niceties](http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/meast/yemen-u-s-drone-wedding/index.html). Yes, if only America was a bastion of freedom, peace, and rule of law the way Pakistan is. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/46 "2013-12-14T22:18:55Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Is it okay to click on that link? Has anyone else done it yet? I would like to know the whole story without going to a NK website. So long as you’re not accessing it from South Korea, you should be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/47 "2013-12-14T22:37:08Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Is it okay to click on that link? Has anyone else done it yet? I would like to know the whole story without going to a NK website. Try here instead: > **[North Korea executes 'traitor' Jang Song Thaek | NK News](https://www.nknews.org/2013/12/north-korea-executes-jang-song-thaek-for-factionalism/)** > > North Korean state media outlet the Korea Central News Agency has declared that Jang Song Thaek, the uncle of Kim Jong Un and former vice Chairman of the National Defence Commission, has been executed. North Korea announced news that Jang had been... ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/48 "2013-12-14T22:56:17Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So long as you’re not accessing it from South Korea, you should be fine. Actually, South Koreans will have no problem with my link. That’s because it is hosted by Google. Here is the long url for the shortened one in #40: [https://sites.google.com/site/archiveofhardtofindnews/hard-to-find-news-items/TraitorJangSongTheakExecuted.mht?attredirects=0&d=1](https://sites.google.com/site/archiveofhardtofindnews/hard-to-find-news-items/TraitorJangSongTheakExecuted.mht?attredirects=0&d=1) > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Try here instead: That’s an excerpt. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/49 "2013-12-14T23:02:57Z")
Correction to my last post: Captain Amazing is correct. Yesterday NK News only had an excerpt, but the Captain Amazing link is complete (and available in South Korea). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/50 "2013-12-15T03:05:25Z")
I was able to read the complete article that Captain Amazing posted: Try here instead:[http://www.nknews.org/2013/12/north-korea-executes-jang-song-thaek-for-factionalism/](http://www.nknews.org/2013/12/north-korea-executes-jang-song-thaek-for-factionalism/) I have bolded Jang’s replies that led to his end of life. If true then Jang was not alone in his quest to over throw Kim Jong Un. It’s just a matter of time before someone else does succeed … they won’t make the same mistakes, but instead they will hope for a coup to bring stability even if they have to die for it. > [@](#): > > Comrade supreme leader is the target of the coup.” > > As regards the means and methods for staging the coup, Jang said: > > **“I was going to stage the coup by using army officers who had close ties with me or by mobilizing armed forces under the control of my confidants. I don’t know well about recently appointed army officers but have some acquaintances with those appointed in the past period. I thought the army might join in the coup if the living of the people and service personnel further deteriorate in the future. And I calculated that my confidants in my department including Ri Ryong Ha and Jang Su Gil would surely follow me and had a plan to use the one in charge of the people’s security organ as my confidant. It was my calculation that I might use several others besides them.”** > > Asked about the timing of the coup and his plan to do after staging the coup, Jang answered: > > **“I didn’t fix the definite time for the coup. But it was my intention to concentrate my department and all economic organs on the Cabinet and become premier when the economy goes totally bankrupt and the state is on the verge of collapse in a certain period. I thought that if I solve the problem of people’s living at a certain level by spending an enormous amount of funds I have accumulated under various names after becoming premier, the people and service personnel will shout “hurrah” for me and I will succeed in the coup in a smooth way.”** > > Jang dreamed such a foolish dream that once he seizes power by a base method, his despicable true colors as “reformist” known to the outside world would help his “new government” get “recognized” by foreign countries in a short span of time. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/51 "2013-12-15T08:44:06Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Actually, South Koreans will have no problem with my link. Except for that whole it being illegal in South Korea to communicate with North Korean entities without prior approval of the South Korean government thing. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/52 "2013-12-15T08:48:37Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > If true then Jang was not alone in his quest to over throw Kim Jong Un. > > It’s just a matter of time before someone else does succeed … they won’t make the same mistakes, but instead they will hope for a coup to bring stability even if they have to die for it. Yeah. I read that report and immediately thought, “Wow. The Norks are publishing a ‘how-to’ guide to overthrow their dictatorship. There’s no way that’s what’s been published inside the country.” ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/53 "2013-12-15T08:52:29Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > “Dreaming different dreams and…double-dealing behind the scenes.” > > Sounds like lyrics from a forgotten 80s synth-pop band. "He makes reality But now the music’s on Oh baby dream with me yeah Ev’rybody have fun tonight! Ev’rybody Kim Jong Tonight!" ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/54 "2013-12-15T09:00:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At any rate, it will lead to a spoiled, impulsive 30-yo leader going without the counsel of older and wiser heads. It rather worked for Alexander and Napoleon. ---
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/55 "2013-12-15T09:04:18Z")
Seems now defectors may be what are of most concern to li’l Kim: > [@](#): > > \*Although the corrupt character of First Uncle Jang Song Taek could not have been much of a surprise to his fellow top officials, including 30-year-old nephew Kim Jong Un, current indications are that the uncle’s coterie was and still is in position to cause the North Korean supreme leader a world of hurt. > > Accordingly the regime is exhibiting seriousness bordering on panic. > > As propaganda designed to instill loyalty to Kim intensifies in the wake of Jang’s show trial, a source from the North’s Yanggang Province is quoted in one South Korean news report as saying that “the atmosphere near the border areas has been like nothing anyone has seen before.”\* [Global Post](http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/north-korea/131212/kim-jong-un-braces-world-hurt) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/56 "2013-12-15T14:56:46Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > The scariest part about the announcement is that one of his crimes was half-heartedly clapping and “unwillingly” standing up for the ovation when Kim Jong-Un was “elected” to lead the country. This is why you always see such unbelievable displays of affection, tears, cheers, etc, toward these leaders from their people. Because if you don’t clap, cheer, or cry hard enough when it’s expected of you, you’ve committed a crime against the state and will be under suspicion for treason. > [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I was able to read the complete article that Captain Amazing posted: > Try here instead:[http://www.nknews.org/2013/12/north-korea-executes-jang-song-thaek-for-factionalism/](http://www.nknews.org/2013/12/north-korea-executes-jang-song-thaek-for-factionalism/) > > I have bolded Jang’s replies that led to his end of life. If true then Jang was not alone in his quest to over throw Kim Jong Un. > > It’s just a matter of time before someone else does succeed … they won’t make the same mistakes, but instead they will hope for a coup to bring stability even if they have to die for it. I think you all have cause and effect mixed up here. The trial is best understood as about ritual, not truth. I am sure he clapped and willingly stood as much as anyone around him: he wasn’t stupid. And the “confession”, if he made it at all, was “coached”. First they decided to kill him: then they went looking for reasons that would also advance some political goal. There is no reason to think that the real reason is in any way connected to the pretexts. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/57 "2013-12-15T15:04:58Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think you all have cause and effect mixed up here. The trial is best understood as about ritual, not truth. I am sure he clapped and willingly stood as much as anyone around him: he wasn’t stupid. And the “confession”, if he made it at all, was “coached”. First they decided to kill him: then they went looking for reasons that would also advance some political goal. There is no reason to think that the real reason is in any way connected to the pretexts. I don’t know how much stock I’d put into his confession, seeing how it was probably staged, made up or coached to excuse assassination of a potential rival. It’ll be nice when NK falls, but they could be stable for decades. What would cause them to fall really? A military coup (what would motivate a military coup, and how could one be organized in a nation as totalitarian as NK)? A public uprising (I don’t know if they are able seeing how indoctrinated and terrified they are)? Internal reforms by high ranking officials? The people in charge of NK supposedly don’t buy into the kim worship (according to Andrei Lankov) but they realize any reform will cause them to not only lose all their power/wealth but if they are lucky end up in prison in the Hague. if they are unlucky, tortured to death by their victims in a revolution. Thirty more years of terror and starvation seems to be more and more likely sadly. At least that is what I’m taking from this. Hopefully I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/58 "2013-12-15T22:55:36Z")
I’m wondering how all those folks who’ve lost relatives to the camps because another relative screwed up somehow are going to react to the wife of this particular “screw up” being promoted. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/59 "2013-12-15T23:02:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m wondering how all those folks who’ve lost relatives to the camps because another relative screwed up somehow are going to react to the wife of this particular “screw up” being promoted. That’s the difference between us and them. We live in a world where, at least in theory, we expect the same rules to apply to everyone. They don’t. The concept is probably utterly alien to them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/60 "2013-12-15T23:56:01Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > It rather worked for Alexander and Napoleon. And their empires did not last. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979.md?page=4)