# North Korea's Missile-Launching Submarine **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830 "2015-05-12T02:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/1 "2015-05-12T02:51:36Z")
They don’t have one yet but could [within the next five years](http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/11/asia/south-korea-north-korea-submarine-missile/index.html). That’s a tad scary. And even scarier, they just launched a ballistic missile from a sub over the weekend. What would be an appropriate action for something like this if it did come to pass? Or _maybe_ they test-launched a missile over the weekend. From the link: \*\*"A U.S. official told CNN that Friday’s alleged missile test was not a test of a ballistic missile but rather a ‘simulation of a test.’ "‘This was not a test. It was a simulated firing,’ the official said. “A second U.S. official said the U.S. is ‘closely looking’ at the possibility the picture of the water ejection behind Kim Jong Un could have been photoshopped. U.S. intelligence officials believe this was – ‘at best’ – a test of a submarine missile ‘ejection system.’”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/2 "2015-05-12T03:08:03Z")
If it ever actually puts to sea, I predict an “accident” very quickly. The norks have zip in the way of effective ASW capability, and the second a boomer of theirs hits the high seas, somebody will put a torp into her. End of problem. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/3 "2015-05-12T03:12:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If it ever actually puts to sea, I predict an “accident” very quickly. The norks have zip in the way of effective ASW capability, and the second a boomer of theirs hits the high seas, somebody will put a torp into her. End of problem. Insufficient casus belli, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/4 "2015-05-12T03:46:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Insufficient casus belli, IMHO. Supposing that eventually they have a nuclear capable sub it will have an accident trying to leave the Yellow Sea. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/5 "2015-05-12T03:55:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Insufficient casus belli, IMHO. Do you mind explaining what you mean by that? Do you mean that we would be declaring war by such an action, and therefore would not do it? Or do you mean that North Korea would refrain from declaring war if that were to occur? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/6 "2015-05-12T06:28:46Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Do you mind explaining what you mean by that? Do you mean that we would be declaring war by such an action, and therefore would not do it? Or do you mean that North Korea would refrain from declaring war if that were to occur? What I mean is, just because a hostile nation has a ballistic-missile submarine, does not justify sinking it in peacetime. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/7 "2015-05-12T06:42:05Z")
Oh, North Korea! They are so cute, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/8 "2015-05-12T07:18:50Z")
I’d be surprised if they manage this. It would be several levels above their current capabilities. The current North Korean navy is permanently divided into a eastern squadron and a western squadron. And the reason for this is they don’t have any naval ships that can cross the seven hundred miles of open sea from one side of the country to the other. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/9 "2015-05-12T07:34:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What I mean is, just because a hostile nation has a ballistic-missile submarine, does not justify sinking it in peacetime. Depends… After all, the Korean War is not yet over. What was signed was an armistice, not a formal declaration of the ending of hostilities. To be exact, when it was signed in 1953, it was supposed to “insure a complete cessation of hostilities and of all acts of armed force in Korea until a final peaceful settlement is achieved”. That “final peaceful settlement” has not yet been signed. Moreover, North Korea itself has announced at least 6 times (1994, 196, 2003, 2006, 2009 and 2013) that it would no longer abide by the armistice, and has engaged in acts of military force against South Korea in the recent past (remember the artillery shelling of some South Korean-held islands a few years ago). TL;DR: Technically the US and South Korea are still at war with North Korea. Also, the latter has announced several times that they did not want to abide by the armistice anyway. The US or South Korea sinking a (fully hypothetical at this time, anyway) nuclear-capable North Korean sub would be fully legal and on the up-and-up as things stand now. Of course, it all would have to be weighed against the chances of provoking North Korea into an all-out attack against the South. If that were to happen North Korea would be utterly annihilated within a couple of hours, but not before having had a chance to lay waste to Seoul. Also, China would possibly be angry at that (although, given how pissed off they are at North Korea, who knows…) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/10 "2015-05-12T08:37:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If it ever actually puts to sea, I predict an “accident” very quickly. The norks have zip in the way of effective ASW capability, and the second a boomer of theirs hits the high seas, somebody will put a torp into her. End of problem. Finding a submarine that does not want to be found is not easy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/11 "2015-05-12T12:11:44Z")
It’s a North Korean sub. I imagine finding it would be within the capabilities of a pack of Cub Scouts. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/12 "2015-05-12T12:22:01Z")
And you have what reason to believe that? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/13 "2015-05-12T12:38:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It’s a North Korean sub. I imagine finding it would be within the capabilities of a pack of Cub Scouts. You just look for the bubbles. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/14 "2015-05-12T13:38:19Z")
I don’t know about the Cub Scouts, but if NK decides to deploy I think the US Navy might be willing to pass along a few subtle hints on position, direction, and depth to the South Koreans. Followed by an announcement from Pyongyang that the mission has been an unqualified success, and the new sub is defending the Glorious People’s Revolution from its now-permanently-assigned position at the bottom of the Sea of Japan. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/15 "2015-05-12T13:40:59Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And you have what reason to believe that? See **Little Nemo** ’s observation as to the capabilities of the North Korean Navy. We probably wouldn’t even need the Boy Scouts. Some DPRK sailor will open a hatch to throw out some trash and the whole thing will end up as a new hazard to navigation. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/16 "2015-05-12T13:54:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What I mean is, just because a hostile nation has a ballistic-missile submarine, does not justify sinking it in peacetime. If it got anywhere near the US mainland, it would “disappear”. I’d put money on it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/17 "2015-05-12T14:04:01Z")
If it got anywhere near _Japan_ it would disappear. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/18 "2015-05-12T14:07:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Finding a submarine that does not want to be found is not easy. I imagine a North Korean sub to be more steampunk than 21st century in terms of technology. Seriously…why the hand-wringing and terror about North Korean military announcements on here? I’d be seriously surprised to find that they could produce something more technologically advanced than early-mid 1960s Soviet technology. I mean launching a missile from a sub? That’s 1950s technology. Woooo. Based on what I can find, their sub fleet is a mix of 1970s Chinese made copies of 1950s era Soviet subs (Romeo class), and tiny, rinky-dink diesel electric indigenous subs of about 300 tons displacement and 7/9 knot speed. The only real threat the N. Korean navy poses to the US Navy is if they’re using some sort of weapon or method so antiquated that we’ve forgotten how to deal with it because everyone else in the world quit using it in the 1930s. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/19 "2015-05-12T14:20:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Finding a submarine that does not want to be found is not easy. Unless you are tracking it with undersea senors from the moment it leaves the pier. ---
**Author:** ![RiCu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@RiCu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiCu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830/20 "2015-05-12T14:46:35Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > undersea senors Those Spanish chaps are good swimmers, but I don’t think they’ll be able to keep up with a sub, even a North Korean one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-koreas-missile-launching-submarine/719830.md?page=2)