# Northern Californian couple finds a huge stash of gold coins on their property **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 25, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241 "2014-02-25T18:25:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/41 "2014-02-27T22:35:51Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > This would be unfortunate for the finders. They would still be US government property. Wouldn’t the government need to prove that these are the same coins that were stolen? I don’t think they have serial numbers, so I don’t know how they would do that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/42 "2014-02-27T22:36:04Z")
It’s going to be hard to prove, though. It’s not like the coins have serial numbers. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/43 "2014-03-04T17:29:11Z")
the coins were in mint condition for a good reason. [http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html?vp=1](http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html?vp=1) $10M Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/44 "2014-03-04T20:10:54Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > You wouldn’t cash out all at once. That’s enough to last most people the remainder of their lives. Just go around the country and quietly cash them in over the next 20-30 years. The IRS will likely notice the accumulation of financial assets that can’t be explained by your declared annual income, unless it gets lost in the noise because your declared annual income is already enormous. When they come to ask why you’re living in a $2M home (and have $8M in the bank) when you have a declared annual income of just $80,000, you better have a good answer ready. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/45 "2014-03-04T21:33:17Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the coins were in mint condition for a good reason. > > [http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html?vp=1](http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html?vp=1) > > $10M Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint [Nope.](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bunch-bullion-dealer-says-gold-coin-hoard-not-heist-n44256) ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/46 "2014-03-04T21:46:13Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > I’d think that this would be considered a “treasure trove” as discussed in [IRS Publication 525](http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p525.pdf) [PDF]: > > “Found property. If you find and keep property that does not belong to you that has been lost or abandoned (treasure-trove), it is taxable to you at its fair market value in the first year it is your undisputed possession.” Agreed. This Ohio case I have in my notes supports your conclusion. > [@](#): > > In addition, the Government in the instant case cites and relies upon an I.R.S. Revenue Ruling which is undeniably on point: > > “The finder of treasure-trove is in receipt of taxable income, for Federal income tax purposes, to the extent of its value in United States currency, for the taxable year in which it is reduced to undisputed possession.” Rev.Rul. 61, 1953-1, Cum.Bull. 17. > **[CESARINI v. UNITED STATES | 296 F.Supp... | 6fsupp31298 | Leagle.com](https://www.leagle.com/decision/1969299296fsupp31298)** > > YOUNG District Judge. This is an action by the plaintiffs as taxpayers for the recovery of income tax payments made in the calendar...6fsupp31298 ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/47 "2014-03-04T22:55:14Z")
The question becomes, when is the ‘income’ taxed? When the coin is sold? How can they be taxed for profit yet unrealized? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/48 "2014-03-05T06:33:21Z")
I’m seeing some news articles today that seem to suggest that maybe those coins were from the Mint heist after all. [Article on Yahoo’s GMA page](http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html) Not sure if this is the newest of the news or if it’s a piece of older news that they’re still mindlessly repeating. I note that this article also repeats the mal-fact that the coins were found in Tiburon :dubious: (ETA: For those not familiar with relevant California geography: Not even close.) ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/49 "2014-03-05T07:11:14Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The question becomes, when is the ‘income’ taxed? When the coin is sold? How can they be taxed for profit yet unrealized? Well from the links posted it would be taxable last year or this year. It doesn’t matter when they seek it. The same reason they would tax you if you won a gold bracelet or car and decided not to sell it. The fact that it’s bullion is no different (well actually it might be in some circumstances - as bullion is a collectible - and usually taxed at 28%). I would think it would be under the collectibles section - at 28% with a zero dollar cost basis. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/50 "2014-03-05T07:17:23Z")
[This story](http://blog.sfgate.com/stienstra/2014/03/04/gold-coin-update-heist-explanation-unlikely) from The San Francisco Chronicle says it’s unlikely that the coins came from that mint theft. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/51 "2014-03-05T21:45:24Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > Well from the links posted it would be taxable last year or this year. It doesn’t matter when they seek it. > > The same reason they would tax you if you won a gold bracelet or car and decided not to sell it. The fact that it’s bullion is no different (well actually it might be in some circumstances - as bullion is a collectible - and usually taxed at 28%). > > I would think it would be under the collectibles section - at 28% with a zero dollar cost basis. It seems to me, though, since this is legal tender that was found, that the initial taxable amount of the find would be the face value of the coins. These aren’t antique vases that have no intrinsic value, each coin has a face value stamped on them by the government. True, these particular coins have collector value, but I’m not sure how that amount could be objectively set (and even if it could the profit would not be realized) until the coins are sold. After sale I could see the IRS seeking additional capital gains tax on the delta between face and sale value. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/52 "2014-03-06T00:00:23Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > It seems to me, though, since this is legal tender that was found, that the initial taxable amount of the find would be the face value of the coins. These aren’t antique vases that have no intrinsic value, each coin has a face value stamped on them by the government. True, these particular coins have collector value, but I’m not sure how that amount could be objectively set (and even if it could the profit would not be realized) until the coins are sold. After sale I could see the IRS seeking additional capital gains tax on the delta between face and sale value. They are just as easily valued as antique Greek Craters. Their stamped face value is as useless as the price of clay in Ancient Greece. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/53 "2014-03-06T16:15:05Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > They are just as easily valued as antique Greek Craters. Are they (real question)? From what I have read some of these coins are so rare that none have been on the market in years. Was that hyperbole (or just plain wrong)? If true, while one may have an idea of what the coins are “worth”, the true amount won’t be known until sold. > [@samclem](#): > > Their stamped face value is as useless as the price of clay in Ancient Greece. It is somewhat different. They could still be spent at face value. If I were Potentate of Taxation in the US, I would initially tax found money at face value then tax the delta as capital gain when/if sold. Fluctuations in market value would seem to make it difficult to do fairly any other way. I’m sure the tax code deals with this. I don’t know what it says. I’m just thinking on screen. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/54 "2014-03-06T17:18:56Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > It seems to me, though, since this is legal tender that was found, that the initial taxable amount of the find would be the face value of the coins. These aren’t antique vases that have no intrinsic value, each coin has a face value stamped on them by the government. True, these particular coins have collector value, but I’m not sure how that amount could be objectively set (and even if it could the profit would not be realized) until the coins are sold. After sale I could see the IRS seeking additional capital gains tax on the delta between face and sale value. Correct: take them to a bank and deposit them into your account, and they will give you only face value. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/55 "2014-03-07T05:06:57Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Are they (real question)? From what I have read some of these coins are so rare that none have been on the market in years. Was that hyperbole (or just plain wrong)? If true, while one may have an idea of what the coins are “worth”, the true amount won’t be known until sold. Agree. But the general area of their worth is in a fixed range. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/56 "2014-03-07T16:56:20Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Agree. But the general area of their worth is in a fixed range. Because these are legal tender, until they are sold, they are worth only face value. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241/57 "2014-03-08T00:27:47Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Because these are legal tender, until they are sold, they are worth only face value. I don’t think that’s correct. An approximate ounce of gold is worth about $1300. US today, no matter if it’s in a gold bar, gold coin from the US/England/Spain/Mexico etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-californian-couple-finds-a-huge-stash-of-gold-coins-on-their-property/682241.md?page=2)