# Northern European flights grounded **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197 "2010-04-15T12:27:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/41 "2010-04-16T12:47:14Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > One of my co-workers is quite happy with the closures. It’s keeping his mother-in-law from visiting! Two of mine are most unhappy. One is trapped in Germany and one in Finland, and it’s looking like its for the weekend. One even has a fairly heavily pregnant wife. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/42 "2010-04-16T13:23:21Z")
I’m supposed to be going from Manchester to Sweden on Monday so I guess I’ll be watching the skies over the weekend! ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/43 "2010-04-16T13:27:16Z")
Well, Mrs W. has pretty much given up on flying out tomorrow morning. The current forecast says no flights until 1am tonight, but it’s couched in very pessimistic terms and I don’t think there’s much expectation that anyone will be flying before late Sunday (if not Monday). Anyone know whether volcanos are classed as an “act of god” for insurance purposes?! ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/44 "2010-04-16T13:46:45Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > Well, Mrs W. has pretty much given up on flying out tomorrow morning. The current forecast says no flights until 1am tonight, but it’s couched in very pessimistic terms and I don’t think there’s much expectation that anyone will be flying before late Sunday (if not Monday). > > Anyone know whether volcanos are classed as an “act of god” for insurance purposes?! This might answer your question (or may not!) :- [Air Passenger Rights](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8621779.stm) [Travel Insurance Confusion](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8624717.stm) ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/45 "2010-04-16T13:47:39Z")
I know a woman who is in Germany today for a one-day business trip, which I’m assuming means the usual 5-6 hours of meetings. It must be pretty darned important because they put her and her colleagues on a bus. Fifteen hours each way. :eek: The company that runs the Copenhagen-Oslo ferry has said that they’re putting matresses on the floors in the conference rooms to squeeze in as many passengers as possible. An intercity bus company that has a space-guaranteed policy said they managed to honor that guarantee Thursday and will do everything they can to honor it until the ash clears, but admit they didn’t exactly have plans for this. Norway is a long skinny country with a lot of remote locations. It’s easy for me sitting here in Oslo to laugh at the tabloids with their giant headlines about SKREKKSKYEN (“the cloud of horror”, roughly), but there are other people in this country who really need the airspace to open again ☹ ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/46 "2010-04-16T14:17:41Z")
We had no travel plans, so this doesn’t affect us directly, but I live not too far from Frankfurt Airport, which has been closed completely to flights since early this morning. It’s _so weird_ not to see any airplanes in the sky at all. We’re having the most beautiful spring day. I’m curious to see the sunset tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/47 "2010-04-16T14:18:54Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > This might answer your question (or may not!) :- > [Air Passenger Rights](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8621779.stm) > > [Travel Insurance Confusion](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8624717.stm) Cheers. Spoke with our insurance company… they’ve said we’ll be covered which is good. Only concern I have is that we bought the cover at 10am yesterday - still a couple of days ahead of the flight, but I guess they could claim that the “event” was already taking place when we booked which would mean we miss out. Could be interesting! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/48 "2010-04-16T14:53:55Z")
I’m under the end of the Brize Norton flight path, as well as a Heathrow approach. Today I can hear the birdies singing. And the occasional prop plane. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/49 "2010-04-16T15:03:37Z")
**Flodnak** , the scariest the thing is that the SeaKing rescue helicopters are apparently grounded also. That’s going to cost lives out there. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/50 "2010-04-16T15:22:48Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > … > > Any dopers effected by this? I work corporate travel for a large international company. We have 20-40 calls on hold. Everyone trying to fly home or get to their meetings. “Yes sir, I’m aware you have a speech in Brussels tomorrow, however the airport is closed. Perhaps a flight to China and the a train?” I have been working 10-12 hor days without lunch since Monday, with no end in sight. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![Walkabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walkabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walkabout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/51 "2010-04-16T15:33:22Z")
I spent almost two hours on hold with the travel people last night, and was finally able to reschedule my flights for two weeks from now. I’m lucky in that my dates were pretty flexible, and this will probably only cost me about $20 for changing hotel reservations. I just hope that the volcano is done by then. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/52 "2010-04-16T15:38:45Z")
so I’m fairly sure this is a pretty stupid question but … why don’t at least some of the planes just fly lower? This cloud of ashes is at 21000 ft if I understand this correctly. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/53 "2010-04-16T15:40:34Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I work corporate travel for a large international company. Ouch. Big sympathy. One of our minor VPs is stuck in Moscow and has been giving his PA all sorts of aggravation because he wasn’t able able to get a flight back until tomorrow. Giving it the whole dummy-spitting, toy-throwing over-entitled routine, insisting she calls BA and remind them that he has an Executive card AND a fully flexible business class ticket and must be prioritised because he needs to be back in London by Sunday :rolleyes: I hope the cloud drifts to Moscow by the time they reopen the UK airports - that would be Teh Funnay ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/54 "2010-04-16T15:40:42Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > so I’m fairly sure this is a pretty stupid question but … why don’t at least some of the planes just fly lower? This cloud of ashes is at 21000 ft if I understand this correctly. There’s still enough in the air to be dangerous I’m told. 34 calls on hold. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/55 "2010-04-16T16:16:12Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > One of my co-workers is quite happy with the closures. It’s keeping his mother-in-law from visiting! > [@lieu](#): > > You need to remind him that the ash has no effect on brooms whatsoever. Which is fortunate for me. (You may now resume the serious part of this thread) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/56 "2010-04-16T16:30:17Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > so I’m fairly sure this is a pretty stupid question but … why don’t at least some of the planes just fly lower? This cloud of ashes is at 21000 ft if I understand this correctly. > [@BMalion](#): > > There’s still enough in the air to be dangerous I’m told. Correct. Let’s see if I can expand on that without making a hash of it. While jet airliners obviously can fly lower than 30,000 feet - they do so for every take off and landing - they are _designed_ to fly at higher altitudes and are _vastly_ more efficient at normal cruising altitudes. I don’t have numbers for it, but basically an airliner that easily makes it from, say, New York to London with fuel to spare even with a headwind, so long as it flies at normal cruising altitude, will NOT be able to make the trip at 10,000. It simply can’t carry enough fuel to do so. It’s that much less efficient. There is a route across the North Atlantic for airplanes that don’t have the endurance to make it all the way across in one go. From the US it goes roughly from Newfoundland to Greenland to Iceland - uh, oh… that’s a problem. (From the UK, it’s Ireland to Iceland and then to Greenland and Newfoundland). Now, for _dire emergencies_ it would be possible to fly a jet (or ordinary piston airplane - piston engines are also at risk from ash because it clogs the air filters to the point where the engine can’t get air, and gets into all the mechanical bits and ruins them) at a lower altitude, but just because _most_ of the ash is above you doesn’t mean you’re safe. A certain amount of ash is always falling out of a cloud like that. It _will_ get sucked into jet engines. It _will_ cause damage. It _will_ scour the paint off an airplane and fog the windows and get into all the mechanical bits. It’s just bad for airplanes (or helicopters, for that matter). So, you’re talking about emergencies sufficient to justify damaging an aircraft, and even then, there is some increased risk is making the flight. On top of that - flights at 10,000 to 20,000 feet are generally subjected to more turbulence and weather than those at 30,000. I doubt that would make anyone happier. And that’s the best I can do for “why don’t we just fly lower?” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/57 "2010-04-16T16:54:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And that’s the best I can do for “why don’t we just fly lower?” But you failed to answer the question as to brooms. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/58 "2010-04-16T17:51:17Z")
Well… insurance company are now arguing the toss about whether at the time I booked the cover (10am on Thurs, BST) the “event” was underway and therefore my cover is not valid. I suspected they’d try this! My argument back to them was 1. I’m not a vulcanologist nor an air traffic controller, so could not be expected to know that a flight on Saturday could be affected 2. At the time I bought the policy my wife’s flight was not cancelled, and UK airspace was not formally closed down (this came about 30 mins later I think!) 3. Their staff knowingly sold me the policy and did not mention this potential impact: what’s more interesting is that an internal communication was sent round the sales team at the insurance company _after_ I called warning them to tell customers that the volcano delays would not be covered. So my argument is that if they’d told me about the exclusion I could have cancelled the hotel (potentially with less penalty), and/or shopped around for another policy. The fact they were unaware of the potential issue also means it’s reasonable for me to be unaware of the potential impact - if a huge insurance company did not know then I can’t be expected to know either. 😉 It’s still going to be a major headache arguing the toss with them, but it’s £500 so I can’t afford to write it off. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/59 "2010-04-16T22:48:56Z")
> [@Panurge](#): > > Well, you didn’t miss out on anything. Can you smell the cloud in Northern Ireland? I can’t where I am, but **flodnak** [reports that it smells like a “major fire in a hot dog factory”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=559821). (Post #6). Smell? Literally not a sausage. Although when the Moon started to dip closer to the horizon, it took on a reddish hue. > [@Nancarrow](#): > > Actually I think you’ll find that it’s the REST of the world that is stranded outside London, thankyou very much. The poor things. I wondered what had happened to the press, in comparison to the days where the Continent was shut off from the UK and not vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197/60 "2010-04-18T10:41:48Z")
Still shut down here till at least tomorrow. I’m meant to be flying to Amsterdam next Sunday. I couldn’t last till then, could it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-european-flights-grounded/536197.md?page=4)