# Northern Ireland - The Solution! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2001, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-ireland-the-solution/84705 "2001-10-01T02:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-ireland-the-solution/84705/21 "2001-10-04T15:51:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xanakis \* > I accept that the RUC could not be counted on to protect them. …However, whilst the prevailing conditions of 30 years ago may help explain some of the attitudes that still exist today, the political climate has changed completely since then and is in the process of changing further. > > An armed terrorist group may be the last line of defence for a community of people who have no other option, repeat, **no other option** …But the catholics of NI are not in this situation. _ **They have a police force and an army to protect them** _. Xanakis, I know you’re trying to be open and reasonable, but I don’t think you realise just how many reasons Catholics in Northern Ireland **still** have to distrust the RUC. Ruadh has already mentioned the Robert Hamill case. Here’s a [description of that incident](http://www.bigwig.net/hamill/murder.html). In case you think that organisation is biased, here’s a [link to the BBC’s description](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_1271000/1271433.stm). It makes for very upsetting reading. > [@](#): > > \*\*Robert Hamill died 11 days after being beaten and kicked by a loyalist gang in an unprovoked attack in the centre of Portadown, County Armagh town, on 8 May 1997. > > The three other people who were with him at the time of the attack have said that Royal Ulster Constabulary officers in an armoured vehicle nearby witnessed the assault but did nothing to rescue 25-year-old Mr Hamill\*\* Let me ask you - if a man had been kicked to death in Manchester while the police watched, how big an uproar do you think there would be? That was only 4 years ago, so please stop saying that the RUC’s questionable commitment to protecting Catholics is all ancient history. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-ireland-the-solution/84705/22 "2001-10-04T20:42:54Z")
Gary could also have mentioned the case of Bernard Griffin, who was picked up by the RUC for no reason as he left a Belfast GAA Club, thrown into their Land Rover, had the living daylights beat out of him and was told they were going to deliver him to the LVF. Then when he took them to court some of their buddies tried to discredit him by planting explosives at his house. The RUC had to pay a £100,000 settlement over the whole thing. This was just three years ago. ---
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-ireland-the-solution/84705/23 "2001-10-04T23:58:04Z")
**irishgirl** : I agree with you. A lot of it comes down to perception. All it would take is for people to realise this and the whole problem would go away. For one reason or another, the two communities hate each other. But as far as I can see, a protestant is exactly the same as a catholic - they are both bi-pedal, organic creatures. All the rest is just perception. **TwistofFate** : Whilst socio-economics may also be a factor, the catholic prohibition on abortion and contraception is definitely a major cause. I know enough catholics who come from large families to indicate this. One of my friends comes from a family of nine children. Whilst most catholics have no problem with contraception, I think the majority of practising catholics would be reluctant to sanction abortion. Of course, I’m not saying that catholics never have abortions. I’m just saying that, for them, its not purely a medical or financial decision like it may be for protestants. A practising catholic would have to go against her religion in order to have an abortion. Many do it, but it’s a tougher decision for them than it would be for many protestant girls. I recognise, of course, that it’s not an easy decision for anyone. **GaryKumquat** and **ruadh** : I said earlier that we can all come up with shocking isolated cases where the RUC can be seen to be at fault. And the cases you cite are, indeed, shocking. But dwelling on them won’t make them stop happening. I’m not saying we should forget them. I’m saying we need to address the problem that brings such cases about. In this case, we need to reform the RUC and we are doing. The case of Bernard Griffin was just three years ago, as you say, ruadh. But I bet that during the course of the last three years, there have been hundreds of incidents where the police _have_ intervened to help catholics. It’s just that these occasions don’t make the headlines. In fact, I would suggest that cases such as the ones you mention are the exception rather than the norm. I know people who have been beaten up by the police in England and the English coppers don’t even have the excuse of sectarianism to justify it. The police force is composed of young testosterone filled males who aren’t afraid of a fight. Thats the nature of the job. All over the world people get beaten up by the police, its not a uniquely Irish problem. Thankfully it’s much rarer in England and Ireland than it is in most other places in the world. Its completely wrong, of course, whenever it happens and the culprits need to be rooted out and punished. Since the RUC seem to close ranks so effectively when it involves them, the only solution is to reform the RUC in a major way. But even this won’t solve the troubles. The only way to do this is for a radical change to take place in peoples perceptions. Basically people need to realise that there is, in fact, no problem, as I said in my first post. Except for problems people make for themselves. For example, Protestant X goes out tonight and throws a brick through a catholics window - a problem has been created which wouldn’t have been created if Protestant X had just stayed in and watched TV that night. I think a lot of the worlds problems could be solved if people just chose to do “nothing” rather than “something”. People seem to have this insatiable desire to “do something” all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/northern-ireland-the-solution/84705.md?page=1)