# Nostradamus **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2001, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004 "2001-09-12T03:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/1 "2001-09-12T03:52:16Z")
> [@](#): > > “In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.”, “The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.” - Nostradamus Someone emailed me with this. I think it’s a hoax but have never researched Nostradamus enough to know if he’s a fraud or too general. Did he really say this? Sorry I don’t have a cite because he wouldn’t give it to me but I’m sure this will spread. ---
**Author:** ![Palve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Palve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palve)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/2 "2001-09-12T04:00:48Z")
I have heard that quote more than once today. But remember that Nostradamus’s works were originally written in French and contain many metaphors, not to mention the great library of unfulfilled prophecies and among them a rare few which can be argued to have come true, inevitable when so many prophecies are made. Just an example: the end of the world in July 2000. I don’t remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_the\_Advancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Lance\_the\_Advancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_the_Advancer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/3 "2001-09-12T04:02:54Z")
Who is the great leader? Bush? Ha. ---
**Author:** ![Palve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Palve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palve)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/4 "2001-09-12T04:07:19Z")
New York is no City of God. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/5 "2001-09-12T04:19:55Z")
In general, most Nostradamus quotes are about as accurate as the readings in the bowl of Alpha-bits you had this morning. [This site](http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/recherch2.htm) contains a searchable database of supposedly all the writings. I did a search of “brothers”, “leader” “fortress” and “succumb” and found nothing like the OP quote. I did find “When the snakes surround the altar, The Trojan blood is troubled by the Spains: Because of them a great number will be lessened, The leader flees, hidden in the swampy marshes” Bush DID go to Louisiana first didn’t he? Just an example of how this works. You find what you’re looking for after the fact when you can twist it to what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/6 "2001-09-12T04:23:22Z")
**Nostradamus** [speaks](http://www.crystalinks.com/quatrains.html) but hear also **Jellydonut** ’s _first_ post. ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/7 "2001-09-12T04:38:53Z")
I’m so annoyed with this kind of garbage. If I ever get around to finishing that time machine of mine, I’m going to go back in time and throw Nostradamus into a pit of flaming tar. First of all, no he never said it. Nostradamus spoke French. Most of his quatrains have been poorly translated. The only place in which the first part of this phrase is used is in a critical analysis of his supposed “prophecies” which you can read [here](http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm). The second part of that phrase is too vague to even comment on. Third war? Big city? sheesh. Also, where’s the cite of the specific century and quatrain? Believers in the nonsensical ravings of a post-medeival witch doctor are nitwits, utter nitwits. They are Nostradumbasses every one. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/8 "2001-09-12T05:21:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JellyDonut \* > \*\*New York is no City of God. \*\* I know this ain’t the pit, but eff you JELLY. The stupidity of Nostradamus, and any nitwit who might believe his garbage, can be sneezed off quite easily without taking a jab at a great city like New York (what swamp you from?), particularly in light of the great tragedy we’re going through at this point. Think whatever you want, but there were people who had to be turned away from donating blood, the lines being so long. Not to say that you and your backwoods swamp-mates wouldn’t donate blood if the need arose. But don’t pee on my city, s\*#t-head. So, again, eff you DONUT. ---
**Author:** ![standbyMYvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@standbyMYvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standbyMYvan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/9 "2001-09-12T05:32:53Z")
yeah i just read that same thing in a diffrent board ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/10 "2001-09-12T05:42:54Z")
On top of being extremely vauge with his predictions, I remember seeing on a discover special that said he also wrote his prophecies in three diffrent languages. I can’t remember which, I think one of them was latin but I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/11 "2001-09-12T08:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JellyDonut \* > \*\*Just an example: the end of the world in July 2000. I don’t remember that. \*\* Mummy, I’m scared the world will end last year. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/12 "2001-09-12T09:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by evilhanz \* > \*\* > Believers in the nonsensical ravings of a post-medeival witch doctor are nitwits, utter nitwits. They are Nostradumbasses every one. \*\* There’s more to read [here](http://skepdic.com/nostrada.html). ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/13 "2001-09-12T10:25:16Z")
[Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm) has the answer. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/14 "2001-09-12T10:35:06Z")
It is surely only a matter of time before someone comes up with an ‘explanation’ as to why the date ‘The year 1999 seven months’ in the famous ‘great King of Terror’ quatrain really meant September 2001. Such nonsense is the only thing about Nostradamus which _is_ predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Mikahw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/15 "2001-09-12T12:03:55Z")
> [@](#): > > It is surely only a matter of time before someone comes up with an ‘explanation’ as to why the date ‘The year 1999 seven months’ in the famous ‘great King of Terror’ quatrain really meant September 2001. Such nonsense is the only thing about Nostradamus which is predictable. They already have. Well, at least some at the [gamefaqs.com](http://gamefaqs.com) message boards have. Some even go so far as to claim that in Nostradamus’ time, “The year 1999 seven months” would be referring to what we call September, 2001. Uh, sure… Also, I find it amusing when that stuff gets overanalyzed. Even **if** he said all that stuff, it’s just a _bit_ vague, and could refer to anything, really. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/16 "2001-09-12T12:08:27Z")
Just for the avoidance of any doubt, let me tell everybody that I fully agree with the sentiments expressed on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/17 "2001-09-12T12:42:25Z")
I entered “nostradamus”, “two brothers” and “city of god” into google and only came up with **one** page that had the “quote”: > [@](#): > > If I make say a thousand prophecies that are fairly abstract for example: > > In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb The page is [Nostradamus: A Critical Analisys](http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm) and it is clear from the context that Nostradamus **did not** write the “quatrain”. The author of the web page obviously made it up as an example of how Nostradamus’s “predictions” could be made to fit an occurrance… given enough time. (Remember the “monkeys with typwriters reproducing Shakespeare” hypothesis?): > [@](#): > > Well let us analyse this. For Example what does City of God mean? It could be Mecca, Medina, Rome, Jeruselum, Salt Lake City, or any holy city depending on > your religion. What do I mean by thunder–a storm? War? EarthQuake? lots of stuff can be described by thunder. There are a lot of two brothers on this world (I > think the Number runs among the Billions) and fortress edure’s what–Besiegement, Famine, etc? What Great Leader? How will he succumb? To what? > > Now let the prophecy rest for a few years. Add a couple thousand more. Eventually, one of them will fit close enought with events that have happened in the future > that the prophecy will appear to come true. If you make enough prophecies and are intelligent enough to word them in such a way that they are abstract you become > instant future see-er person. For example those psychics you see every year that make predictions for the year 199-whatever generally get one or two out of ten > predictions right. It is because they are good guessers and that there is enough of them to make it seem like people can really predict the future. Nostradamus didn’t say it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/18 "2001-09-12T12:47:01Z")
Oops. I just looked at Snopes. They reference the same page I found yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/53a042/32.png) [@Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vinnie_Virginslayer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/19 "2001-09-12T14:07:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by evilhanz \* > **I’m so annoyed with this kind of garbage. If I ever get around to finishing that time machine of mine, I’m going to go back in time and throw Nostradamus into a pit of flaming tar.** I love that line! 🙂 I remember after OJ sliced up Ron and Nichole that there was a Nostradomus prediction about that too, and that was a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2001, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004/20 "2001-09-12T17:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tony \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by JellyDonut \* > > \*\*New York is no City of God. \*\* > > I know this ain’t the pit, but eff you JELLY\*\* Jelly was refering to the fact that the usual translation of the ‘prophecy’ refers to the ‘city of God’. Normally Nostrodamus nuts translate this to mean Jerusalem or Mecca or some other religious centre. New York hardly qualifies. So the interpretation in this case is even more a load of BS than usual. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nostradamus/81004.md?page=2)