# Not all atheists are anti-religion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 8, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297 "2008-12-08T20:17:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/21 "2008-12-09T02:47:48Z")
I am… well, best described as agnostic, but functionally atheist. I still have spiritual yearnings, but in the final analysis (in the trenches, so to speak) I just don’t grok deity or religious doctrine. Anyhow… I have always had great appreciation for the beautiful art and music inspired by religious beliefs and practice. Especially music written in honour of or about Mary, the mother of Jesus. Everything from Josquin’s _Ave Maria, gratia plena_ to Monteverdi’s _Vespers_ to Purcell’s _The Blessed Virgin’s Expostulation_ to Samuel Barber’s “St. Ita’s Vision” from the _Hermit Songs_. I adore the songs, colours, and traditions of the Advent and Christmas celebrations in church. The more “high church,” the better. Organ music, choir boys, incense, chanting, ancient carols, the works! I love the responses: The Lord be with you And also with you Lift up your hearts We lift them up to the Lord… I can feel the emotion and inspiration behind all these things. That’s what I appreciate. Also, my brother is a minister. I have a great deal of respect for him, along with my mom, my sister-in-law, and various others who have a vibrant and compassionate Christian faith. With great fruits of the spirit. Damn, it sometimes makes me wish I believed all that. But I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/22 "2008-12-09T13:11:24Z")
The rabid anti-theism displayed on this board and elsewhere is simply another form of the age old Ideological Superiority Game. _“You’re stupid if you don’t believe what I believe”._ It’s offensive and silly in all realms of Ideology, from religion to politics to wherever. ---
**Author:** ![Purgatory\_Creek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Purgatory\_Creek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purgatory_Creek)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/23 "2008-12-09T13:52:05Z")
I am what I call a “primary atheist,” signifying that I was born without the capacity to believe in a deity or in anything else for which I have no evidence. I’ve noticed that sometimes the most vocal and angry atheists are the ones who feel they have been harmed by religion or have directly experienced the negative side of religion. I simply don’t care about religion. When others practice their rituals, I just stand quietly by, nodding pleasantly, until they are done, just as I do when my Aunt Ethel rambles on about her colostomy bag. I don’t hate religious people or like them any more than I do other atheists. What I do hate is when people think my atheism makes me a satanist. I dislike people of any creed who are unable to use logic. ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/24 "2008-12-09T14:08:57Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Ironic SDMB handle. 😉 Would that more of the SDMB atheist offenderati agreed with you. Heh, there is a little intentional irony. It’s very close to (or a converse of) the Steven Roberts quote which Der Trihs mentioned" “I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you’ll understand why I dismiss yours.” If I do have any after-death experience, and it involves finding out I was wrong (HAR HAR), I expect to meet the entire pantheon rather than just one Judeo-Christian God. If one is possible, they are all possible. Er, plus I was struck like a ton of bricks by the Pantheon as described in Byron’s ‘Childe Harold’s Pilgrimage’ (Canto the Fourth, CXLVI and CXLVII). When I say I believe strongly in live and let live, it does mean I retain a bit of reflexive hostility to having religion shoved at me, and also any ideology, philosophy, fundraisers or body parts I did not ask for in my face. I have, I think though, outgrown my hand-stabbing phase (as Lib would say). I had to, for my own self-survival. As a recovering alcohol/addict (12-18-08=1000 days :D), I just can’t afford to get that worked up about things I can’t control. I value my serenity too much to flip-out over every god-botherer. 😜 I take my daughter to church because she wants to go. I take her to whatever church she chooses, and we go or don’t go according to whether she feels like it. She’s settled mainly on one church, because several of her friends from school go there. I think she is learning social skills, compassion, generosity, and many other good things there. I’m also honest about my own (lack of) beliefs whenever she wants to discuss. (I’m a strange blend of [Christian atheist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism), Satanist, Secular Humanist, Discordianist, and Pastafarian as well some others, so I have a bit of my own pantheon going on in my head.) I go every once in a while to screen the message she is hearing…the same way I listen to her music occasionally or check out her MySpace page. (I created a page and she added me voluntarily and without being asked in any way- she thinks it is a hoot that her old dad is on it.) The church seems very open- all are welcome to take communion, there’s no politics, OT brimstone, or bigotry in the sermons, etc. I’m proud of her choice and she’ll probably get more out of it than I did since she knows she never has to go if she doesn’t want, or she’s free to visit a friend’s church, or synagogue, or mosque, etc. I didn’t like theism forced on me, so I’m not going to force my atheism on her. Her belief system, her sexuality, her career path- all of her choices will be her own and she’ll always know that she has my unconditional support regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Karyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/fbc32d/32.png) [@Karyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karyn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/25 "2008-12-09T14:47:59Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I have no objection to other people having religious or spiritual beliefs as long as they don’t push them on other people or use them to force other people to change their behaviours. This pretty well sums it up for me to. I don’t like pushy extremists regardless of the subject matter but in my experience most theists aren’t like that. I object strongly to the idea of any group equating their faith with a political agenda to be forced on the rest of us but other than that I figure that anything that gives them a sense of community and shared moral values is a good thing for a lot of people. I don’t think that it’s all that different from the social justice groups that I’ve been part of - we share a common vision of working hard to change things on a local level and get strength and motivation from each other. \ One thing that does drive me nuts is using the bible as evidence for what’s in the bible. It makes me want to tear my hair out. \ ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/26 "2011-08-14T09:29:32Z")
> [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](#): > > An anecdote - I was in Spain last year on business, and had the chance to visit the [Cathedral de Sevilla](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seville_Cathedral) - the largest medieval cathedral in the world (as the proud tour guide pointed out, St. Peter’s in Rome is a _basilica_, not a cathedral). I can honestly say that it is the most beautiful structure I’ve ever seen in my life. It _is_ beautiful, and what makes it that way (IMO) is the time and love of one’s craft that went into building/creating it. One has to wonder about the people responsible for this beautiful cathedral and what they must have been like and what a strong work ethic they must have had - working from sunrise to sundown. It’s much the way I listen to Beethoven: not just to the music itself, but to the _man_. How he must have struggled, what it was like for him in his small apartment, sweltering hot in the Summer and unbearably cold in Winter. Sick all his life, yet still managing to give us the gift of such beautiful music. I think of him as having every right to tell them all in those days to go fuck themselves, yet he remained true to his art and had such hope for humanity. You don’t just look and listen to such beauty, you immerse yourself in it. I have to ask, **CPI** : Did you put your hands on the walls and close your eyes the way I did with Beethoven’s piano? Quasi ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/27 "2011-08-14T10:17:26Z")
> [@pantheon](#): > > I consider myself an atheist, and philosophically a Satanist, and I take my children to church and even occasionally attend with them. I also attend 12-step meetings several times a week and stand in a circle holding hands with people and am respectfully silent while they chant the Lord’s Prayer. > > I will admit I went through an anti-religious phase. I also went through many other phases of rebellion against my parents, school, authority and society in general. > > As I matured though- I realized that rabid, mindless, in-your-face anti-theism was just as stupid and offensive as rabid, mindless, in-your-face theism and for the exact same reasons. Now I am simply without religion or any belief in God. > > I can still be offended on principle by blind obedience, codified bigotry, legislated morality, and hypocrisy. I detest these things equally whether they are cloaked in religion or elsewise. > > I don’t believe in or practice any religions, but I do have a moral code and am a serious proponent of live and let live. I no longer try to talk others out of their beliefs, and I rarely share mine unless invited. I don’t need to because no part of my belief system is dependent on others sharing it. > > Besides, just because you see a little kid fishing in a puddle is no reason to take away his pole. 😃 I don’t know if you are still around, but I am so glad to meet a Satanist who is not an antitheist. That’s the only kind I’ve encountered before, to the point that I thought that was the point. I do wonder though. Why do you use that term instead of others? What is it about Satanism that makes it fit your philosophy more? I always assumed the title was specifically to point out the anti-Christian part, since it’s otherwise similar to many other concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/28 "2011-08-14T11:00:33Z")
What can “Satanism” possibly mean if not a class of theism itself? It seems to me that Satanists subscribe to Christian mythology as much as anyone, they just revere a different figure within it than most. Unless this is some kind of “Satanism” not actually about Satan, in which case it seems poorly named. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/29 "2011-08-14T12:44:39Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The rabid anti-theism displayed on this board and elsewhere is simply another form of the age old Ideological Superiority Game. > > _“You’re stupid if you don’t believe what I believe”._ > > It’s offensive and silly in all realms of Ideology, from religion to politics to wherever. I don’t think that’s fair. This is a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance. It’s not a popularity contest. If one believes in fairies, no matter how smart, or nice, or pretty, or cool they are… they still believe in fairies. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/30 "2011-08-14T12:48:26Z")
I am an atheist who worships zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/31 "2011-08-14T19:04:40Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > It _is_ beautiful, and what makes it that way (IMO) is the time and love of one’s craft that went into building/creating it. > > One has to wonder about the people responsible for this beautiful cathedral and what they must have been like and what a strong work ethic they must have had - working from sunrise to sundown. > > It’s much the way I listen to Beethoven: not just to the music itself, but to the _man_. How he must have struggled, what it was like for him in his small apartment, sweltering hot in the Summer and unbearably cold in Winter. Sick all his life, yet still managing to give us the gift of such beautiful music. I think of him as having every right to tell them all in those days to go fuck themselves, yet he remained true to his art and had such hope for humanity. > > You don’t just look and listen to such beauty, you immerse yourself in it. > > I have to ask, **CPI** : Did you put your hands on the walls and close your eyes the way I did with Beethoven’s piano? > > Quasi The Cathedral de Sevilla is so powerful, it can _raise the dead_! (Sorry, I reposted a link to my post here in another thread, and should have called out that it wasn’t a recent post - but as zombies go, there are much worse topics to resume). **Quasi** , I had a moment when I was walking up the [bell tower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Torre_de_la_Giralda_-_Plaza_Virgen_de_los_Reyes_-_Sevilla.jpg) - which was built on the remains of the minaret of a mosque originally on the site 800 years ago. It’s 300 feet-and-change, and most of it ramp instead if stairs - a damn hard walk, and a killer on the lower legs, especially when you’re as out of shape as I, and when the person you’re with is practically bounding up the tower in excitement, and you’re trying to keep up. I asked my coworker Pablo for a breather, and leaned up against the wall, near the top, where the obvious Moroccan-influenced style of the old minaret stopped, and the Gothic stonework took over. And I began wondering at all the people who may have stopped in that very spot over the decades and centuries - old mullahs and priests catching their breath, stoneworkers taking a brief break between hours of backbreaking work, young monks looking in awe out the narrow windows to catch a glimpse of Seville from one of the highest structures in the Western world at the time. Contrast that with the world I live in now - in a suburb of Portland, in a house less than 15 years old, where the oldest building within miles and miles is still only 150 years old. It’s a pretty humbling experience. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/32 "2011-08-14T19:13:04Z")
Does “anti-encroachment of religion on my life” = “anti-religion”? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/33 "2011-08-15T14:07:17Z")
In a way, I envy religious people. They seem to take great comfort from their faith, comfort that I’m too inquisitive to share. There are times that I’ve wished I could turn off what my mind tells me is true and wrap myself in the protective cloak of belonging-to-something-huge-and-historic. I bet it’s nice. But, I just can’t understand people who are unwilling to question. So, I remain a stranger in a strange land. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/34 "2011-08-15T16:16:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does “anti-encroachment of religion on my life” = “anti-religion”? I was wondering the same exact thing! ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/35 "2011-08-15T17:09:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does “anti-encroachment of religion on my life” = “anti-religion”? In my opinion, no. To me, “anti-religion”=“all religious beliefs are delusions, and all religions are ultimately bad and should be destroyed”. I think that it is imperative for atheists to oppose the encroachment of religious dogma on everyday secular life, but that’s not calling for the destruction of religious institustions, it’s just calling for them to back the f\*ck off and keep their noses out of our lives. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/36 "2011-08-15T17:16:50Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > In a way, I envy religious people. They seem to take great comfort from their faith, comfort that I’m too inquisitive to share. There are times that I’ve wished I could turn off what my mind tells me is true and wrap myself in the protective cloak of belonging-to-something-huge-and-historic. I bet it’s nice. > > But, I just can’t understand people who are unwilling to question. So, I remain a stranger in a strange land. Nice either-or fallacy there. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/37 "2011-08-15T17:17:49Z")
I think religion is a beautiful and wholly fulfilling thing. Wish I could believe in it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/38 "2011-08-15T17:18:21Z")
Just a tad off-topic and please bear with me, but despite a strict Catholic upbringing, I enjoy reading your posts and have learned from them: such as never be afraid to question. Does that sound patronizing? Please don’t take it that way, okay? i don’t know how else to word it. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/39 "2011-08-15T17:26:40Z")
> [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](#): > > In my opinion, no. To me, “anti-religion”=“all religious beliefs are delusions, and all religions are ultimately bad and should be destroyed”. I think that it is imperative for atheists to oppose the encroachment of religious dogma on everyday secular life, but that’s not calling for the destruction of religious institutions, it’s just calling for them to back the f\*ck off and keep their noses out of our lives. Using this definition then, what percentage of atheists on this board are really anti-religious, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297/40 "2011-08-15T19:02:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Using this definition then, what percentage of atheists on this board are really anti-religious, in your opinion? It’s hard to nail down - I can think of a handful of posters (let’s say, less than 10) that in my experience are staunchly anti-religious, as in, “all religion is wrong, and its very existence annoys me” as opposed to “religious dogma X is wrong, and it annoys me that the religious aren’t condemning it”. The distinction can be a bit subtle sometimes (but usually, the posters I’m thinking of have all the subtlety of a sack of bricks to the face). Also mitigating this - I tend to stay out of GD and the Pit (althogh I felt compelled to post in the Pit lately, that’s not typical for me), and I would imagine most of the anti-religious posts occur there. But the posters I have in mind usually don’t hesitate to take their battels to IMHO, MPSIMS, CS, TGR, and ATMB, so who knows? So in my inexpert and completely half-assed opinion, there are maybe a dozen or so posters (ETA - sorry, I conflicted with myself there compared to my first paragraph - I’ll leave it as is) who I’ve seen exhibit what I would consider anti-religious attitudes. Considering that this board has a disproportionate number of atheists (compared to the commonly quoted 10% of the population) I would say the percentage of atheists who are active posters on this board - who are also truly anti-religious - is somewhere around 10%.\* Disclaimer: This estimate has a margin of error of ± 150 points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-all-atheists-are-anti-religion/476297.md?page=3)