# Not allowed in Alcoholics Anonymous **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489 "2014-04-06T17:48:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/41 "2014-04-07T10:48:07Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Y’know, I hate to say this, but were you drunk when you wrote this post? > > Because it makes no sense whatsoever! Yep. I kinda thought everyone recognized the OP as drunken rambling. Been there, done that. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/42 "2014-04-07T14:32:03Z")
I’m not sure whether some of the posters here are alcoholics denying that they have a problem or people that don’t have a clue as to how much of an addiction this really is. There’s a good reason for why AA bans alcohol, even social drinking, it’s because, for someone with a problem, saying, “I’ll just have one drink.” is one of those ways out of the program. For those of you that don’t know, just having one turns into just having two, which turns into only drinking on the weekends, which turns into only having one or two anytime, and much more on the weekend, which turns into … well you get the point. The mind fools the drinker into drinking, basically. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/43 "2014-04-07T14:58:14Z")
> [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#): > > I’m not sure whether some of the posters here are alcoholics denying that they have a problem or people that don’t have a clue as to how much of an addiction this really is. There’s a good reason for why AA bans alcohol, even social drinking, it’s because, for someone with a problem, saying, “I’ll just have one drink.” is one of those ways out of the program. For those of you that don’t know, just having one turns into just having two, which turns into only drinking on the weekends, which turns into only having one or two anytime, and much more on the weekend, which turns into … well you get the point. The mind fools the drinker into drinking, basically. I think the issue is how fast and loose they tend to be with labeling someone an alcoholic, AND that they think all of these people can definitely never, ever drink in moderation. That is just plain not true. Every partying college kid would be considered a lifelong alcoholic by some of them, and many of them do eventually just grow up and start drinking in moderation once they move onto the next phase in their life. I don’t see how anyone who has ever met more than like 4 young adults could not know that. Sure, there are some people who really need to just stay away from alcohol completely and I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise. But they (some of them) take it too far and that’s why they get called a cult. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/44 "2014-04-07T15:22:49Z")
This is one of the reasons why AA is, in some ways, a religious organization. It isn’t a full “religion” in the sense of clarifying ultimate realities about the universe, but it has religious aspects in the way that it believes that there is no cure for alcoholism. If you feel that you used to be an alcoholic but are no longer one (i.e. you are recovered, not “recovering”), then you really don’t fit because you are an unbeliever in their teachings. AA certainly works for a lot of people. If it’s not your thing, move on and find a way to live that works. That’s the way these things work. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/45 "2014-04-07T15:35:01Z")
You don’t need them. F\*\*\* 'em. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/46 "2014-04-07T15:40:04Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I think the issue is how fast and loose they tend to be with labeling someone an alcoholic, AND that they think all of these people can definitely never, ever drink in moderation. By their definition, an alcoholic is someone who cannot control their drinking. If you can drink in moderation, you’re not an alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/47 "2014-04-07T16:20:55Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > By their definition, an alcoholic is someone who cannot control their drinking. If you can drink in moderation, you’re not an alcoholic. Plus, I would bet that not a lot of people who can control their drinking try to join AA because they want to quit. I am sure it is not universal, but it cannot be rare, to have someone show up at an AA meeting who is in denial that they have a problem. If the OP can really control her drinking, then she doesn’t need AA. If she can’t control it, and is drinking more than she is willing to admit, then that is a point in favor of AA’s definition of alcoholism. She says that previously alcohol nearly destroyed her life. Now she is either drinking moderately, and doesn’t need to join AA, or is returning to her former patterns, and needs to quit drinking altogether, since drinking moderately is apparently not working for her. _:shrugs:_ If the OP ever returns, she can explain if she likes what she hopes to gain from AA, but right now it doesn’t make sense to me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/48 "2014-04-07T16:27:50Z")
> [@sandysue44](#): > > I went to an AA group for the first time in over ten years yesterday. At one time I had a problem with abusing alcohol which destroyed my life. I am 60 now and I very rarely even think of drinking alcohol. If I do, it is maybe a single can of Foster’s Beer or a glass of wine and I really don’t even want to. I see people who are obsessed with it and I hate being around them. When I went to a meeting after being asked about my drinking I told them that I don’t want to be the way I was but now I rarely drink and it had been about three weeks since I had a drink. I said I had wine at my son’s wedding. I was told that I could not join because I was looking for an excuse to drink. I believe that AA is a cult and the woman leader recognized that she could not control me. I asked here don’t you always say 'Once and alcoholic always and alcoholic and you are never recovered you are always in recovery? I don’t think they liked the fact I don’t have an issue with alcohol anymore and they can’t get me to do what their cult wants me to do-that is make me dependent on them.:dubious: I think I must be the first person to be turned down for membership. I know their motto is the only reason for membership is a desire to stop drinking which I do. There are two types of AA meetings. Closed meetings are for those people who define themselves as alcoholics and are seeking to live lives without alcohol, period. If you attended a closed meeting and did not introduce yourself as an alcoholic and, then, on top of that, made it clear that you were not seeking abstinence, then, yes, you would be asked not to attend that meeting. Open AA meetings are just that–open to the general public, people who are still drinking, reluctant folks who got a DUI and are court-ordered to be there, and so on. If you still want to hang around AA for some reason, then find an open meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/49 "2014-04-07T17:46:14Z")
The 3rd Tradition of A.A. \*The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. \* If you don’t want to quit drinking, why the fuck would you go there. Just to be a dick? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/50 "2014-04-07T19:09:34Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I’ve just got to ask how this happened. Because although I can imagine a person being told s/he was repeatedly in denial , what I cannot imagine is how this any would come up if you didn’t raise your hand when the group was asked if there were any newcomers or something. I never heard of any 12 step group where everyone was required or even put on the spot to share. Not even closed meetings- which are only for those who wish to stop drinking. > > And on a completely separate note- what do you mean by “designated driver”? It normally means one person in a group who agrees not to drink so there will be at least one sober person to drive home, but that clearly doesn’t apply here. I didn’t raise my hand, I was hanging out in the back of the room with a coffee and a book. They were the ones that got pushy. I kept explaining that I didn’t have an issue with drinking, I was a driver for someone else. They kept pushing me, asking when the last time I had something to drink, what did I drink, how much did I drink, didn’t I see I was in denial about my alcohol problem. I spent the next 3 months of meetings sitting in the car waiting, drinking a coffee and reading my book. Ben got in an accident on the Amphibious Base in Norfolk Virginia, and lost his right to drive on any Navy base around there, and as it had involved a civilian contractor, the local civilian police also got called in, so he also lost his license outside base until he went to a certain number of AA meetings and took some sort of safe driver class. If I didn’t drive him to meetings or class as there is no real effective bus route there to get anywhere, he would not have been able to get to these meetings and the class as he would have had to walk almost 15 miles to get to the class, and about 5 miles to get to the meeting the judge wanted him to go to. Designated Driver. No idea what else you could really call it. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/51 "2014-04-07T19:27:42Z")
I can’t say what was going on in that particular meeting **aruvqan**. As a San Diego resident, I do know that some local meetings get frustrated with having to deal with waves of resentful young people getting dropped off for meetings because it’s a cheap way for the military to deal with drinking issues among personnel. They don’t want to be there, they don’t think they have a problem with alcohol, and they are just there to get the paper signed. There was one small meeting I stopped going to because it had been “discovered” by the local recruit depot. On some occasions the regulars were far outnumbered by the kids who had been dropped off. The oldtimers did their best to make people feel welcome, but they did get irritated by having their time wasted by a bunch of people who weren’t serious. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/52 "2014-04-07T19:41:27Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > ::: snip ::: > > I’d say the existance of a single individual who CAN drink ethanol after being classified as an “alcoholic” would disprove this rather overly-broad nonsense. No matter who or how many tell me I am an alcoholic, no matter the proof, nothing changes until I decide I have a problem & want to do something about it. I have a good friend who proves that I am not an alcoholic all the time. Very smart & logical and all that. I say, "So what? I think I am an alcoholic. If I really am not, just think I am & like the sober life style & the way AA helps me, attending meetings or not, why is that different from be a any other life style choice that is not illegal or harmful to myself or others. Is being sober dangerous to my self or others? Not that I can see so why do you care? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/53 "2014-04-07T19:50:50Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > The 3rd Tradition of A.A. > > \*The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. \* > > If you don’t want to quit drinking, why the fuck would you go there. Just to be a dick? Doesn’t AA also believe “once an alcoholic, an alcoholic forevermore?” It could be prophylactic. A booster shot, if you will. Maybe the OP wants to be reminded of what she doesn’t want to be? I can see why a bunch of uptight hardcore alkies might not want to be someone else’s poster children for what not to do, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/54 "2014-04-07T21:46:34Z")
AA does not believe anything. Some people do but they do not speak for AA. One of the founders was an atheist. Don’t have to be a Christian or believe in God. Today, you don’t see many alcoholics like of old when AA was founded. it was not about people with maybe a problem. It was about people who had no options left, they had tried everything. So, you are sober for 30 years & go back & drink successfully. Good for you. AA will cheer you on. If you do not manage that, the doors are always open. Only a true alcoholic is always an alcoholic so far. Someday, science maybe could fix that. For millions & millions of recovering alcoholics, that is a chance they either won’t take or they tried it and found that they were unable to drink responsibly. But without being a member for some time & doing a little work & study about what AA is & then make claims that AA says this & that, is just foolish. No one member or group speaks for AA. The first 164 pages of the AA big book contains the program of AA. No one says who or how you have to do it. You just have to be polite more or less, don’t disrupt a meeting, just some common sense type things, then you are welcome. There are suggestions. There are groups that will ask you to leave. There are people who badger others to do it their way. ( Kind of like folks on the SDMB ) There are millions of different meetings. Don’t like your life now? Just remember: Nothing changes if nothing changes. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/55 "2014-04-07T23:33:36Z")
I once heard of a meeting which started with a show of hands: “How many are here just to get a paper signed?” (court, etc). Those people were given signed papers and left alone. This is where I make the distinction of “does/does not know better” - the courts should damned well know better than to think this “religion which is no so much a religion (anymore)” is going to cure a drunk. If anything, it ensures that the person can get it together long enough to get to a given place at a given time, and it frees up a jail bunk. When the moron-in-chief demands that simply everyone is _really_ an alky, and just in denial, you have a psycho in charge. I am not an alky in denial. I was an alky, I may still be an alky - but I CAN drink a single drink in a year - sometime I’ll try getting shit-faced and see if I revert to old consumption patterns. If I do, it will not be because of some self-important twit who insisted on telling me who and what I am. I know me better than any such person. If it works for you - then, like any religion - hooray for it, and I’m happy you found something which makes you feel better about your life. I’ll still be an atheist, though. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/56 "2014-04-08T00:08:10Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Thank you for approximately the seventh billion re-statement of AA’s bread-and-butter lie: > “Alcoholics” can never, ever, have a drink without ending up in a gutter someplace very unpleasant - even if they start in a world of wealth and privilege. > > Just how the rich guy in his remote estate gets to a SkidsVille gutter is never explained. Plenty of people literally piss away their wealth thanks to substance abuse. They have TV shows like “Celebrity Rehab” to show some of them, and gossip magazines to show others. Money is no insulator. > [@](#): > > I’d say the existance of a single individual who CAN drink ethanol after being classified as an “alcoholic” would disprove this rather overly-broad nonsense. It is over-broad and unscientific, but that is no reason to dismiss the whole program. I, for one, have to stay completely away from that first drink because I cannot fathom why someone would want a single drink. To get mildly tipsy for a few minutes holds no charms for me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/57 "2014-04-08T00:08:26Z")
Because the very definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot drink in moderation. THAT is the point. There are some people who have drinking problems, yeah, but they might not be full-blown alcoholics. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/58 "2014-04-08T00:32:47Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > I can’t say what was going on in that particular meeting **aruvqan**. As a San Diego resident, I do know that some local meetings get frustrated with having to deal with waves of resentful young people getting dropped off for meetings because it’s a cheap way for the military to deal with drinking issues among personnel. They don’t want to be there, they don’t think they have a problem with alcohol, and they are just there to get the paper signed. > > There was one small meeting I stopped going to because it had been “discovered” by the local recruit depot. On some occasions the regulars were far outnumbered by the kids who had been dropped off. The oldtimers did their best to make people feel welcome, but they did get irritated by having their time wasted by a bunch of people who weren’t serious. And I wasn’t dropped off, I was perfectly happy sitting quietly in the back of the room enjoying a coffee and my book. I didn’t raise my hand, I didn’t even say anything, they started in on me. No matter what I said, they pushed me to admit I had a drinking problem. I personally don’t consider a tablespoon of brandy in a mug of coffee, or wine/champagne at a wedding for toasting or cooking with wine or booze to be having a drinking problem. I consider doing a favor for a friend not to be a drinking problem. Badgering someone there as a designated driver is a great way to really piss someone off so they will never ever consider AA a valid option for anything. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/59 "2014-04-08T00:57:01Z")
I do not belong to an organized, top-down, everybody-trained organization. I belong to AA, a place where everybody is an amateur preacher and psychologist. Some happen to be good at what they do, some aren’t, but they all get their turn to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489/60 "2014-04-08T03:04:01Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > By their definition, an alcoholic is someone who cannot control their drinking. If you can drink in moderation, you’re not an alcoholic. Yeah, but that can change. If a 21-year-old is going out to clubs or frat parties or whatever and maybe getting blackout drunk or getting into stupid fights or gets a DUI, many hardcore AA members are going to say that person is a lifelong (because it’s always lifelong) alcoholic, right? That’s all I’m disagreeing with. People drink too much for different reasons. Some are young and impulsive, and in many cases that changes naturally. Some drink to cope with problems, but maybe their circumstances change later or they learn new coping skills. I’ve seen these happen many times (well, the first one more) so I know it’s possible. Excess drinking is not so different from every other destructive tendency that it could never, ever change. It’s like saying if you used to steal cars when you were a teenager, now even after 20 years of being a law-abiding adult you really must make sure never to drive 32 in a 30 zone because you won’t be able to control your criminality and next thing you know, you’ll find yourself in prison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-allowed-in-alcoholics-anonymous/685489.md?page=4)