# Not enough votes to override a veto?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 21, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492 "2018-12-21T14:39:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/1 "2018-12-21T14:39:21Z")
Trump says he will veto a spending bill without $5 billion for a border wall. Doesn’t congress have enough votes to override such a veto? The House passed a bill along party lines that includes the money but it will almost certainly not pass the Senate.
Do Republicans not have the political will to override a veto for the sake of keeping the government open?
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/2 "2018-12-21T15:28:18Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#):
>
> Trump says he will veto a spending bill without $5 billion for a border wall. Doesn’t congress have enough votes to override such a veto? The House passed a bill along party lines that includes the money but it will almost certainly not pass the Senate.
>
> Do Republicans not have the political will to override a veto for the sake of keeping the government open?
Last time it happened was in 1982. It’s very difficult.
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### Author:  [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/3 "2018-12-21T15:41:55Z")
The most recent override of a veto was in 2016:
> **[Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Against_Sponsors_of_Terrorism_Act)**
>
> The Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (JASTA) (Pub. L. 114–222 (text) (PDF)) is a law enacted by the United States Congress that narrows the scope of the legal doctrine of foreign sovereign immunity. It amends the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act and the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act in regards to civil claims against a foreign state for injuries, death, or damages from an act of international terrorism.
> Previously, U.S. citizens were permitted to sue a foreign state ...
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/4 "2018-12-21T15:49:01Z")
> [@zimaane](#):
>
> The most recent override of a veto was in 2016:
>
> [Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Against_Sponsors_of_Terrorism_Act)
We’re talking about the appropriations bill.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/5 "2018-12-21T15:49:16Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#):
>
> …
>
> Do Republicans not have the political will to override a veto for the sake of keeping the government open?
it’s a tricky thing, they might have the reason to veto based on the issue, but the other factor is the rebuke of the president which may be the line they will be unwilling to cross, and what that means for disunity of the party, plus Trump may try to get revenge somehow and they have to decide if they are willing to challenge him on that basis. Personally I would love to see them override Trump’s veto, but I can’t see them doing that.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/6 "2018-12-21T15:57:39Z")
Not too surprising, when you consider the circumstances needed for a veto to come up. You have to have supermajorities in both houses in favor of something, but also a President who’s opposed to it. Since the President was elected within two years of any given member of either house also being elected, that probably means that you had to have some major shift in the electorate in a very short time. And even in that situation, everyone probably knows that they’re in that situation, so you’d need either a President who felt strongly enough to issue a veto that he knew would be overridden, for the sake of political appearances, or who couldn’t count accurately enough to know that it would be. And the Constitution already provides for a way for a President to express his displeasure with a bill while still letting it pass, by just neither signing nor vetoing it.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/7 "2018-12-21T16:33:36Z")
**CookingWithGas** , to over-ride the President’s proposed veto, you would need at least enough Republican House members who would vote with the Democrats to over-ride the veto. That would have to be roughly one-third of the conference (I’m not interested enough to run the actual numbers). If you really think that one-third of Republican Congresscritters are willing to over-ride a veto from a Republican President, you need a sanity check. They might as well sign their political death warrants.
Besides, it’s not like they are upset about a government shutdown. One Republican Congressman, from PA, who barely survived this last mid-term election, has already made it clear that he doesn’t believe it’s a big deal, since no one really lives paycheck to paycheck, yanno? They eventually will get paid, so what’s the big deal? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/8 "2018-12-21T16:45:47Z")
If I did the math correctly, they need all Democrats & Independents plus 93 House Republicans and 18 Republican Senators to vote to override the veto.
That’s for the 115th Congress. After January 4, the number changes quite a bit.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/9 "2018-12-21T17:06:37Z")
Some Republicans might decide that a long shutdown is suicide for the party. Given choice between suicide by torture, or by shooting, then might choose the latter. If the shutdown happens tonight and congress adjourns then nothing can happen until Jan. 2 and it might take a long time to find a solution. Even if Congress were to pass a bill (they haven’t) and Trump neither signed nor vetoed it, it would still take ten days to become law.
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/10 "2018-12-21T17:24:59Z")
It seems the Republicans have no path to a clear win here. They can
[ul]
[li]Rebuke the president by presenting a bill that they know he will veto then override a veto, which ain’t gonna happen[/li][li]Let the government shut down, which they will be blamed for, although to me the political consequences of that are unclear, and continue to negotiate a compromise bill that will make nobody happy[/li][li]Spend $5 billion on a wall that they don’t want and that most Americans don’t want[/li][/ul]
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/11 "2018-12-21T17:48:20Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#):
>
> It seems the Republicans have no path to a clear win here. They can
>
> [ul]
> [li]Rebuke the president by presenting a bill that they know he will veto then override a veto, which ain’t gonna happen[/li][li]Let the government shut down, which they will be blamed for, although to me the political consequences of that are unclear, and continue to negotiate a compromise bill that will make nobody happy[/li][li]Spend $5 billion on a wall that they don’t want and that most Americans don’t want[/li][/ul]
Right now the 3rd option requires 9 Senate Democrats to agree to it, so it’s not really an option. After January 3 they need only 7 Senators, but they’ll lose the majority in the House so they’ll also need 18 House Democrats to agree to it.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/12 "2018-12-21T19:18:36Z")
Refresh my memory on Civics 101: Is it possible for the House to pass a bill now, and then for the Senate to pass the same bill in January, thereby making it law? Or does the new Congress coming in automatically negate any bills currently pending?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/13 "2018-12-21T19:23:53Z")
I thought that if the House passes it, it automatically goes to the Senate for consideration. I can’t think of any mechanism that would allow them to pass it then sit on it.
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/14 "2018-12-21T19:27:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Refresh my memory on Civics 101: Is it possible for the House to pass a bill now, and then for the Senate to pass the same bill in January, thereby making it law? Or does the new Congress coming in automatically negate any bills currently pending?
Had to look this one up. The NAACP has a [fact sheet](https://www.naacp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PRIMERBillLife.pdf) (small PDF) that says
> [@](#):
>
> Once a Congress adjourns, however, at the end of its two-year cycle, all
> bills that have been introduced in either the House or the Senate that
> have not made it through the entire legislative process and signed into
> law are dead. This includes bills that may have passed both the House
> and the Senate but were never finalized and sent to the President for
> his signature; bills that passed one house (either the House or the
> Senate) but not the other; bills that were the subject of committee or
> subcommittee hearings but were never considered by either house; and
> bills that never got more action after being introduced.
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/15 "2018-12-21T19:28:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> I thought that if the House passes it, it automatically goes to the Senate for consideration. I can’t think of any mechanism that would allow them to pass it then sit on it.
The House wouldn’t sit on it but the Senate could.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/16 "2018-12-21T20:00:53Z")
Moved to Great Debates.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-enough-votes-to-override-a-veto/826492/17 "2018-12-21T21:32:15Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#):
>
> It seems the Republicans have no path to a clear win here. They can
>
> [ul]
> [li]Rebuke the president by presenting a bill that they know he will veto then override a veto, which ain’t gonna happen[/li][/ul]
Well, he _says_ he’ll veto it, but I daresay there is sufficient evidence that Trump is about as capable of telling the truth as guinea pigs are of earning postgraduate degrees in film studies, so maybe this is a bluff worth calling.