# Not for Passover use?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 15, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516 "2002-03-15T20:48:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Jet\_Jaguar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Jaguar)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/1 "2002-03-15T20:48:34Z")
In the kosher foods section of the grocery store, I noticed some of the packages had labels on them that read “Warning: Not for Passover use.” The urgency of the warning made it sound downright dangerous. Anyway, what is different about these items that make them not for Passover (presumably there are versions that can be used otherwise there would be no confusion and no need for the label), and what is legal?
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### Author:  [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2002, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/2 "2002-03-15T22:01:49Z")
This would most likely be on packages of Matzo. Jews (those who feel bound by the Torah’s laws, that is) do not eat or own any baked goods that have been leavened - i.e., made of a grain-water mixture and allowed to rise - on Passover. The main staple during Passover is Matzo, which is flour + water and immediately baked so that it does not rise.
Now, the Rabbis have determined that 18 minutes is the limit of time that a grain-water mixture can be allowed to sit unbaked before it is considered, in the eyes of Jewish law, to have “risen.” Matzos that are fit for Passover use have been very strictly monitored during production to ensure that the dough has not sat for as much as 18 minutes before going into the oven.
However, much Matzo is produced commercially which is roughly the same, but is merely for consumption by those who like the taste. These have not been allowed to rise to the degree that would compromise the taste of the Matzo, but were not observed to stringently enforce the 18-minute limit that would make it pass muster for Passover. ;j
In addition, for the first two nights of Passover (in Israel, the first night only), there is a Biblical commandment to eat Matzos, and not only must the Matzos eaten during that meal (called the Seder) obey the 18-minute limit, but they must also have been produced by someone having the intention to produce Matzos for the observance of the commandment. (If you ever visit a Matzo bakery at this time of year, you’d hear the workers saying, at regular intervals, the Hebrew phrase which means “Matzos for the sake of the commandment!”) The matzos you refer to would be problematic for that purpose as well.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/3 "2002-03-16T06:34:59Z")
And Chiam, why are egg matzot verboten?
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### Author:  [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/4 "2002-03-16T13:56:46Z")
Does salting them have anything to do with their lack of fitness for Passover? I’ve seen salted matzohs and I seem to remember they were not for Passover use either.
But I could be mistaken.
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/5 "2002-03-16T18:22:37Z")
Nothing to do with salt.
You might check the Archives, for the following Staff Report:
[Why can’t you put cornstarch in your Passover cheesecake?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcornsta.html)
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/6 "2002-03-16T19:40:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by DSeid \*
> \*\*And Chiam, why are egg matzot verboten? \*\*
Ha! I know that one! :j
Egg is a leavening agent. Souffles and merangue are two examples of how eggs can make things rise and get poofy. Hence, eggs (for baking purposes, at minimum) are verboten. Hard-boiled eggs, however are pretty much manditory, along with matzo, lamb-shank, bitter herbs (aka parsley and or horseradish) and a yummy mixture of chopped apples, nuts, wine and honey that’s called…
…um…
…aak. Train of though derailment!.. **Chaim** : help! Choroset? Horoses? What’s that stuff called?
What I’ve never understood is why an (obnoxious) “holier than thou art” eats something that he claims is an “ancient Jewish dish” that I’ve never seen anywhere: take a hard boiled egg, mash it up 'till it’s a paste, add _water_ to thin it out to a consistancy a little thinner than mayo, add chopped raw onions and smear on matzo. Yuk. Watery, oniony, egg-paste. Bleach. Please tell me that this _isn’t_ some long standing tradition that I’ve never heard of!
Fenris
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### Author:  [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/7 "2002-03-16T22:17:39Z")
Charoses, Fenris. (It’s my job every year to make that. I’m the only non-drinker, so the only way I make sure there’s no alcohol in at least part of it is to make it myself.)
While we’re on the subject of matzo, I was looking at an old box, and I saw the phrase “Challah is taken”. What does that mean?
Robin
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### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/8 "2002-03-16T22:29:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Fenris \*
> \*\*What I’ve never understood is why an (obnoxious) “holier than thou art” eats something that he claims is an “ancient Jewish dish” that I’ve never seen anywhere: take a hard boiled egg, mash it up 'till it’s a paste, add _water_ to thin it out to a consistancy a little thinner than mayo, add chopped raw onions and smear on matzo. Yuk. Watery, oniony, egg-paste. Bleach. Please tell me that this _isn’t_ some long standing tradition that I’ve never heard of!Fenris \*\*
There are plenty of longstanding _family_ Passover traditions that are similar to this. In my family, we always start Passover dinner (the “meal” in the middle of the Seder) with a big bowl of salt water with chopped up hard boiled eggs in it. This is a tradition in my family because my father’s father liked it. The “egg schmear” sounds like the same thing – something that his family did for Passover, which incorporated traditional Seder foods, but probably came from his village, rather than from ancient Jews (who didn’t eat bagels either).
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/9 "2002-03-16T23:45:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by SpoilerVirgin \*
> \*\*
>
> There are plenty of longstanding _family_ Passover traditions that are similar to this. In my family, we always start Passover dinner (the “meal” in the middle of the Seder) with a big bowl of salt water with chopped up hard boiled eggs in it. This is a tradition in my family because my father’s father liked it. The “egg schmear” sounds like the same thing – something that his family did for Passover, which incorporated traditional Seder foods, but probably came from his village, rather than from ancient Jews (who didn’t eat bagels either). \*\*
Your explaination is probably correct, unfortunately, Cousin-in-law would deny it. “ALL Jews do it! I can’t _believe_ you haven’t been doing this! EVERY Jew has this as a traditional part of the Seder dinner” :rolleyes:
“All Jews”
:: derisive snort ::
You couldn’t get all Jews to agree that Pharaoh was the bad-guy in the story, let alone agree on a matter of food. 😃
BTW: Thanks, **MsRobyn** , that woulda bugged me all night!
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### Author:  [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/10 "2002-03-18T02:02:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by MsRobyn \*
> **While we’re on the subject of matzo, I was looking at an old box, and I saw the phrase “Challah is taken”. What does that mean?**
The Torah (in Numbers 15:17-21) requires that when a Jew makes a dough for bread, he must separate a portion of it and give it to a kohen (priest) who serves in the Temple. There is no Temple nowadays, but a portion is still ceremoniously separated in order to allow the bread to be eaten.
This portion is known as “challah”. Over the centuries, many Jewish women developed the habit of baking their own homemade bread in honor of the Sabbath (rather than buying it from a bakery) so that they could personally do this “mitzvah” of separating the “challah” portion. Eventually, these special Sabbath breads became known as “challah” as well.
This applies to all bread doughs, including unleavened bread. That notice on the matza box is to reassure the consumer that the required portion has been properly removed. It is my opinion that the “kosher” label on the package ought to be sufficient to reassure the consumer that the rabbis did whatever has to be done, and the “challah is taken” notice is merely marketing hype.
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### Author:  [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2002, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/11 "2002-03-18T03:24:26Z")
I’ve seen bottles of apple juice labelled as being Kosher. Are there apple juices that aren’t Kosher?
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### Author:  [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2002, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/12 "2002-03-18T04:12:44Z")
While apple juice is, by nature, a kosher product, it can be processed and packaged by machines which were also used for non-kosher products, thereby rendering the apple juice non-Kosher.
Chaim Mattis Keller
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### Author:  [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-for-passover-use/98516/13 "2002-03-18T15:01:16Z")
In addition, there are coagulating agents used in apple juice. When you squeeze your own apple to get juice, you get a dark brown liquid (like apple cider). This is because there are small bits of apple in the juice. In order to get the juice to that familiar golden color, a coagulating agent is used to cause the apple bits to clump together (which can then be strained out). Some of the coagulating agents may contain non-kosher ingredients as well.
Zev Steinhardt