# Not gay but want to spend your life with a friend **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231 "2013-12-26T21:22:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/41 "2013-12-27T16:20:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What does that even mean? Marriage laws were intended to be used to get married, and _maybe_ have children? I’m not seeing any way that the OP’s hypothetical violates that. As I’ve repeated a handful of times already, turning this kind of relationship into a marriage plainly does not violate the law. It’s not the kind of relationship that was intended to be recognized as a marriage, but it fits the criteria we do have. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/42 "2013-12-27T16:35:22Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > My wife and I don’t have a sham marriage, but I was accused of tax fraud (by a lawyer no less) because we are not monogamous. I wonder when the law will crack down on us? They’ll be cracking down something like 30% of marriages, then. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > How were the marriage laws intended to be used? > [@Marley23](#): > > For spouses, potentially including children. Historically, marriage laws have primarily been a means of transferring assets (or retaining them). Until fairly recently the whole “love and affection” bit was pretty much incidental. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/43 "2013-12-27T16:40:22Z")
Until recently, homosexuals married out of societal pressure/family/religion…without sexual attraction. This was expected in many cases. Didn’t hear anyone sympathizing much about that. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/44 "2013-12-27T16:45:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, it’s now legal for a married couple to live with someone else and say they’re also married. The additional marriage just isn’t legally recognized in any way. Right, but it also makes it clear that you don’t have to be monogamous to be married in Utah, which by some readings was the case prior to this ruling. But to my knowledge, these questions have not gone before a court in other jurisdictions, meaning the lawyer who said I was a tax fraud for having a wife and a girlfriend may very well have been right. The question is not settled in other states (as I understand it – I’m not a lawyer or even very knowledgeable about the law). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/45 "2013-12-27T16:53:41Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > If two friends of the same sex feel like they would be quite happy spending their lives together even though sexually they would continue to seek out the opposite sex should they be allowed to marry? They would essentially be roomates. Don’t see a problem with it, personally. The way I see it, marriage is a kind of business relationship. If two people should be able enter into any kind of business relationship they want, as long as they’ve met the basic requirements. “Love” isn’t a basic requirement, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/46 "2013-12-27T17:15:25Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > However, and perhaps I’m the only one, I do get at least a sense of dishonesty from this. Again, I don’t really give a shit, if you can game the system I say go for it, but it’s still gaming the system. Is it any worse than a heterosexual male-female couple doing the same thing? Of course not, but even if it is perfectly on the up-and-up legally, a sham marriage is still a sham marriage, and if you can’t recognize that as dishonesty, then there’s nothing I can do for you. I disagree. There’s no dishonesty without a deliberate lie, and it’s entirely possible to get married, for non-romantic reasons, without ever once having to lie or misstate your intentions. I’m fairly certain that if you go up to the county clerk and say, “We want to get married purely for tax reasons,” he still lets you fill out the forms. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/47 "2013-12-27T17:21:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This has been discussed more than a few times on the SDMB and probably at every other forum on the interwebz. We don’t make men and women prove that they’re marrying each other for love, so we shouldn’t make two men or two women prove it either. I really don’t give a crap if some people get married for convenience. Back in the day, it was not uncommon for gay men and lesbians who were close friends to marry each other for appearances, and pursue the relationships they really wanted on the side. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/48 "2013-12-27T17:27:14Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Back in the day, it was not uncommon for gay men and lesbians who were close friends to marry each other for appearances, and pursue the relationships they really wanted on the side. I’m aware. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/49 "2013-12-27T19:54:28Z")
Not “Marry” but I’d support household rights for them such as the right to jointly file taxes. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/50 "2013-12-27T20:47:57Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Right, but it also makes it clear that you don’t have to be monogamous to be married in Utah, which by some readings was the case prior to this ruling. > > But to my knowledge, these questions have not gone before a court in other jurisdictions, meaning the lawyer who said I was a tax fraud for having a wife and a girlfriend may very well have been right. The question is not settled in other states (as I understand it – I’m not a lawyer or even very knowledgeable about the law). My understanding is that there is no question to be settled in the other states- typically, bigamy laws are written to prevent someone from attempting a second legal marriage (by having a second marriage license issued) and it wouldn’t be illegal for a married person to simply live with another person either in addition to or instead of the spouse . Only in Utah did the bigamy statute prohibit a married person from cohabiting with an adult other than the spouse and that’s the part that was overturned. If the lawyer was correct about tax fraud, it wasn’t simply because you had a wife and a girlfriend. It would have been because of something done on your tax return , like trying to deduct your girlfriends medical expenses if she didn’t qualify as a dependent or something. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/51 "2013-12-27T21:52:07Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > but even if it is perfectly on the up-and-up legally, a sham marriage is still a sham marriage Uh… contradictory? Or at least relies on either a meaningless definition of “sham” or a overly broad definition of “marriage”. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/52 "2013-12-27T23:08:24Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > […] even if it is perfectly on the up-and-up legally, a sham marriage is still a sham marriage, and if you can’t recognize that as dishonesty, then there’s nothing I can do for you. Unfortunately the only thing I understand in this statement is that you disapprove of me. One thing you might have done for me, but didn’t, would have been to explain exactly what the sham is. What is stated but untrue? What is promised and withheld? If a “sham marriage” confers the rights, privileges, and responsibilities of a marriage that isn’t a sham, “sham” is not much of a distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/54 "2013-12-28T03:04:47Z")
Who are you talking to, Linda? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/55 "2013-12-28T03:47:37Z")
FWIW, I’ve known at least two heterosexual military couples who got married for the benefits. The husband was deployed and the wife was back home so neither of their lifestyles changed appreciably except they got some more money from the government. Both of these cases happened before gay marriage was legalized anywhere so it’s hardly unprecedented for people to marry not out of love. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/56 "2013-12-28T17:09:57Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > If two friends of the same sex feel like they would be quite happy spending their lives together even though sexually they would continue to seek out the opposite sex should they be allowed to marry? They would essentially be roomates. The answer should be exactly the same as if two friends of opposite sex wanted to marry for convenience and continue to seek other partners. Why do you think the fact that the two roommates are of the same sex is relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/57 "2013-12-28T17:21:27Z")
I don’t see why this would be remotely problematic, or why it would be a ‘sham’. There at least three possible things you might refer to as a ‘marriage’. One is the legal construct and all the rights and responsibilities that go with it. One is the definition that religious groups might use (which is going to vary somewhat depending on which religion it is), and then one is your personal definition- what marriage means _to you_- which is going to vary from person to person. As far as I know, the state certainly doesn’t require two people to be in love when they marry, neither does the church, and neither would my personal vision of marriage revolve around love (for me, marriage is something like a business partnership focused around childrearing, and love is more of an optional extra). So who are they perpetrating the ‘sham’ against? I don’t consider a straight married couple who don’t love each other to be a sham, and neither do I have a problem with a gay couple who does the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231/58 "2013-12-28T18:18:54Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I don’t consider a straight married couple who don’t love each other to be a sham, and neither do I have a problem with a gay couple who does the same thing. I gather the hypothetical is just “a couple” who happen to be the same gender, not specifically gay. Not that it matters, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-gay-but-want-to-spend-your-life-with-a-friend/677231.md?page=2)