# Not having children and your outlook on life **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 5, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075 "2010-10-05T01:54:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/81 "2010-10-06T05:14:45Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > You die old and lonely with no immediate family to call your own. Just a thought. Having children is certainly no guarantee that won’t happen anyway. If my mother is out there alive somewhere right now, there’s probably a good chance she’s ended up that way herself, and she only has herself to blame. Would be pushing 80 now, and all I can remember of her is how unhappy she tried to make everyone. The one thing she ever said that seemed to make any sense whatsoever was that it’s not worth it to have children. So I didn’t! I found possibly one of the few Thai ladies who also does not want to have children, and we’re deliriously happy. Mom was right after all! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/82 "2010-10-06T07:59:45Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > No one has yet brought up the issue of car seats. > … > And taking a baby on a plane is a special level of hell that I won’t ever have to deal with. Even if you don’t have children “of your own”, there can be children in your life, and they can be close enough that you need to do things like childproof. One of my uncles and his wife didn’t have children, but their house was quite kid-friendly because they liked having us visit. **tdn** just made me realize that, if Middlebro and his family ever do come visit me in Seville, going anywhere in a car will need to involve a rented minivan with two carseats! :eek: Piling everybody up in my Yaris wouldn’t work and driving all the way from Up There to Down Here would be pretty dumb (the train takes 1/3 of the time, someone else drives it, there are movies, the kids can move around, there are built-in potties and a cafeteria, and the cost for 4 people is similar to the cost of driving), but yeah, if I want them to come down I’ll need to childproof the house (which had already been contemplated, as had where to put everybody to sleep), I’ll need to have toys handy (set), but I also need to remember that showing half a dozen of grown-ups around is a lot less work and complication than two grown-ups and two little kids. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/83 "2010-10-06T15:18:53Z")
A couple of minor things: When you have kids you have to take them places and interacted with the parents of all the other kids, whether you have anything in common with them or not. This is pretty hard on the kind of introverted people who hang out on this message board. Conversely, when you have kids you have take them places, so you learn where all the bowling alleys, swimming pools, park, skating rinks, high school tracks, etc. are in your area and far beyond. I miss that. I don’t find those places unless I stumble upon them accidentally. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/84 "2010-10-06T17:01:49Z")
Expenses have been mentioned, but I think it’s really hard to prepare for the financial hemorrhage that kids bring. In addition to college savings, doctors, clothes, food, etc., are the transportation expenses. We live in an area with no public transportation, and mine are all driving age. We now have the expense of providing vehicles and gas for each youngster. And we’ve entered a whole new relationship with State Farm\*. Monthly insurance bill for _one_ of my new drivers actually exceeds my car payment on my first car. \*Large national car insurance company, for non-USians. ---
**Author:** ![RedBloom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dbc845/32.png) [@RedBloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedBloom)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/85 "2010-10-06T17:06:24Z")
I have two small kids, and while I NEVER understood the choices/demands/sacrifices I’d be handed on a platter, I wouldn’t trade them for the world. When you have kids, EVERY choice you make you must consider how it may affect your kids (now, or in the future). House, cars, grocery items, time off work, you must be able to multi-task and change plans at a moment’s notice. Basically, plan on giving up a large chuck of freedom and self-absorbed naval gazing for 18 years, and finally you’re left with the fruit of your labor. I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. I have no problem with people choosing to be child-free, but don’t expect people to be jumping for joy because of your noble decision to do whatever you want/whenever you want/however you want - that’s not my philosophy on life and frankly, I find it terribly boring. You have to be a parent to understand that parent bond. You look a parent in the eye and you know the pain, struggles, heartache, painful love that goes with it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/86 "2010-10-06T17:16:29Z")
> [@RedBloom](#): > > Basically, plan on giving up a large chuck of freedom and self-absorbed naval gazing for 18 years, and finally you’re left with the fruit of your labor. I only made it to 2.4 years staring at the Pequod before I gave up. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/87 "2010-10-06T17:36:09Z")
To add to the list… When my husband decided to give up his nice safe career in computers and become a commercial helicopter pilot at 35, we did not have to consider the financial and relocation effects on kids. I have been able to pursue a career I love without worrying about who was home for the kids while I was at board meetings, conferences, weekend and evening special events. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/88 "2010-10-06T18:46:02Z")
> [@RedBloom](#): > > I have two small kids, and while I NEVER understood the choices/demands/sacrifices I’d be handed on a platter, I wouldn’t trade them for the world. When you have kids, EVERY choice you make you must consider how it may affect your kids (now, or in the future). I get that part. > [@](#): > > House, cars, grocery items, time off work, you must be able to multi-task and change plans at a moment’s notice. Basically, plan on giving up a large chuck of freedom and self-absorbed naval gazing for 18 years, and finally you’re left with the fruit of your labor. I don’t get this part. What makes you think that childfree couples or singles enjoy the luxury of self-absorbed navel gazing for 18 years? What makes you think we haven’t given up our freedom to careers, caring for sick or disabled parents or other relatives, or other social responsibilities? While I think it’s nice that some people learn empathy and selflessness from parenthood, I just wanted to point out that having children is not the _only_ way to accomplish personal growth. > [@](#): > > I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. I have no problem with people choosing to be child-free, but don’t expect people to be jumping for joy because of your noble decision to do whatever you want/whenever you want/however you want - that’s not my philosophy on life and frankly, I find it terribly boring. How is this different for nonparents? I don’t think my choices are any more noble than yours, and I cannot appreciate the sacrifices you’ve made to be able to make those choices any more than you can appreciate mine. Single, childless people make short term sacrifices for long term gain as well. This is not exclusive to parenthood. > [@](#): > > You have to be a parent to understand that parent bond. You look a parent in the eye and you know the pain, struggles, heartache, painful love that goes with it. I’ll give you that one. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/89 "2010-10-06T18:50:35Z")
> [@RedBloom](#): > > I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. I have no problem with people choosing to be child-free, but don’t expect people to be jumping for joy because of your noble decision to do whatever you want/whenever you want/however you want - that’s not my philosophy on life and frankly, I find it terribly boring. Ok. Yay. I don’t need or want you to be jumping for joy about it. But there’s no reason to be depressed or angry about it, either - not that I am saying you are. I just want people to react in a neutral fashion when I say I don’t have kids. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/90 "2010-10-06T18:59:41Z")
> [@RedBloom](#): > > … > I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. … What is the long term gain? I really don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/91 "2010-10-06T19:04:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@RedBloom](#): > > > > … > > I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. … > > What is the long term gain? I really don’t see it. Allegedly, grandchildren - if your kids are so inclined. Supposed to be like children, only you get only the good bits. 😃 Seriously though - it is amazing to see how hard-wired older parents appear to be, to long for grandchildren. I’ve often wondered if there was some biological explaination for it. Certainly, I hated the more-or-less subtle pestering from my parents when I was not a parent. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/92 "2010-10-06T19:08:57Z")
Oh, yes, I got that too and I wasn’t even married. I think my dad would settled for me impregnating a stranger in a dumpster, ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/93 "2010-10-06T19:12:42Z")
I always thought the one thing that would bring my parents closer to us would be the presence of grandchildren. It is the one thing I really didn’t want. And besides, to get grandchildren, you have to raise some kids first. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/94 "2010-10-06T19:13:08Z")
> [@RedBloom](#): > > I have no problem with people choosing to be child-free, but don’t expect people to be jumping for joy because of your noble decision to do whatever you want/whenever you want/however you want - that’s not my philosophy on life and frankly, I find it terribly boring. I’m a parent, and there’s nothing I find more unbelievably boring than people who define themselves by their parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/95 "2010-10-06T19:17:39Z")
Grandchildren are a benefit? I just think of them as 20 more years of distraction. And I know lots of grandparents who get resentful at their kids – for dumping _their_ kids on them to go off and do whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/96 "2010-10-06T19:18:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@RedBloom](#): > > > > … > > I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. … > > What is the long term gain? I really don’t see it. I don’t either and I’m a parent. Someone to take care of me in my old age - they’ll have their own lives - I hope! Grandkids - wouldn’t mind them someday, but I hope they don’t have kids just for MY sake. Be able to brag about their accomplishments to my friends - “my son the Doctor” - no, I’ll take a better bet on something to talk about. There is gain - for me - not necessarily for you - in being a parent. I like it. I like my kids. I like shaping their lives. I like laughing with them. I like reliving my childhood watching them. I like watching them become “real people.” I like having them come to me for advice, and helping them through their problems, and picking them up when they let me do neither and saying “well…” But yeah. If you don’t want to do it, for God’s sake, don’t. Seems like a great way to ruin several lives at once. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/97 "2010-10-06T19:21:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Grandchildren are a benefit? I just think of them as 20 more years of distraction. And I know lots of grandparents who get resentful at their kids – for dumping _their_ kids on them to go off and do whatever. Heh, you may not feel that grandchildren are a benefit, but your parents allegedly do - not two posts up, you posted: > [@](#): > > Oh, yes, I got that too and I wasn’t even married. I think my dad would settled for me impregnating a stranger in a dumpster As I said, I think it is something practically hard-wired into older parents, to want grandchildren. It certainly appears that way with mine, and judging from what I’ve heard from others, they aren’t unique. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/98 "2010-10-06T20:18:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > What is the long term gain? I really don’t see it. > > Allegedly, grandchildren - if your kids are so inclined. Supposed to be like children, only you get only the good bits. 😃 > > Seriously though - it is amazing to see how hard-wired older parents appear to be, to long for grandchildren. I’ve often wondered if there was some biological explaination for it. Certainly, I hated the more-or-less subtle pestering from my parents when I was not a parent. > [@Malthus](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > Grandchildren are a benefit? I just think of them as 20 more years of distraction. And I know lots of grandparents who get resentful at their kids – for dumping _their_ kids on them to go off and do whatever. > > Heh, you may not feel that grandchildren are a benefit, but your parents allegedly do - not two posts up, you posted: > > > [@](#): > > > > Oh, yes, I got that too and I wasn’t even married. I think my dad would settled for me impregnating a stranger in a dumpster > > As I said, I think it is something practically hard-wired into older parents, to want grandchildren. It certainly appears that way with mine, and judging from what I’ve heard from others, they aren’t unique. My dad was a very abusive guy. He may ave wanted me to have kids as a form punishment – for me. ---
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/99 "2010-10-06T20:45:17Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > After reading this thread, I realize that I’m not sure what the OP is actually asking. > > Is he asking: What are the advantages and disadvantages to having children? Well I’m not getting into that. It’s such a personal decision. Everybody has to make the right choice for themselves. There’s no logical answer. > > But I thought he was asking: How is life different for someone with children vs. someone without children? > > I was childless for over 40 years, and now I’m a parent of a baby boy, so I haven’t been a parent that long. Even though I haven’t been a parent long I can already tell you: everything is different. There’s not a decision I make that doesn’t take into account the fact that I now have a child. > > So making a list of differences is silly: It would go on forever. Great post and congrats on your boy. You’ve hit the nail on the head. There are benefits and sacrifices associated with either life choice. Trying to debate them is pointless. It’s like arguing over your favorite color. Nobody is right or wrong and nobody is going to change their mind no matter what you say. My whole perspective on life changed when I had kids. You don’t need to have kids to experience that kind of change, it’s just hard for me to imagine what else could have done it for me. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/100 "2010-10-06T20:50:56Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My dad was a very abusive guy. He may ave wanted me to have kids as a form punishment – for me. Heh, I must admit, that’s not an angle that occurred to me. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075.md?page=6)