# Not having children and your outlook on life **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 5, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075 "2010-10-05T01:54:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/101 "2010-10-06T20:57:43Z")
Oh, yeah, that was definitely a huge part of my mom’s disappointment when I got it through her skull that I was never having kids - I could tell, she saw it as me wriggling out of some cosmic punishment. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/102 "2010-10-06T21:02:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@RedBloom](#): > > > > … > > I’m sure many parents will agree with me, it’s short term sacrifices for long term gain. … > > What is the long term gain? I really don’t see it. I can describe the way I feel about it. It’s largely emotional, which is why parents and childfree people have such a hard time communicating. For me, the long term gain is when you see your child become a productive member of society, so you know you have done your part in the great circle of life. I might even go stronger and say that I will have done my duty in the great circle of life when that happens. There’s a sense of wanting to pass something on to the next generation: knowledge, family history, culture, etc., that is very strong in people who want children and very weak in childfree people. And that I think is the big difference between them. ---
**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/103 "2010-10-06T21:14:54Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > These days, I can’t even read a book properly. Even if I’m alone, with no current responsibilities, my brain has been trained to never pay attention to something for more than a few minutes. I find myself reading a couple paragraphs, then just looking up from the page for no reason. > > Again, I think it’s totally worth it. There is a tender love for your children that can’t be replicated in any other relationship. They make me laugh like crazy. It is literally awesome to have the crafting of a human being in your hands. And at the same time that you feel responsible to make them into good people, you get to see their natural personalities, that no amount of parenting can change, emerge and blossom. It’s great, but it is heavy duty, and not for everyone, and I think that’s fine. I came in to quote the upper paragraph that I have left in, but the second is so true! But thats true about the book reading! You just can’t lose yourself in a story anymore when they are young & even though my younger child is now 17 it just never came back! & I still can’t read while I’m at the beach. (I tried last summer) Childfree (or in particular, teenage boy free) you may sometimes have a clean kitchen bench & no dirty dishes. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/104 "2010-10-06T21:26:00Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Oh, yeah, that was definitely a huge part of my mom’s disappointment when I got it through her skull that I was never having kids - I could tell, she saw it as me wriggling out of some cosmic punishment. Woah, having a mother who feels that way must be terrible. ☹ My sympathies. I can tell that my parents don’t feel that way at all (aside from an occasional wry moment of ‘I told you so’). When they see my son, they are genuinely delighted - last year, when we took him up to the cottage, and my dad got to paddle his grandson in his canoe around the island - you could see it in his face, the happiness. While I certainly did not have a kid to make them happy, I’m not sorry that it does. ---
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/105 "2010-10-06T21:35:15Z")
I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/106 "2010-10-06T22:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Heh, you may not feel that grandchildren are a benefit, but your parents allegedly do good for them. But unless they’re ready and willing to raise them, they can want grandkids 'til doomsday for all I care. > [@](#): > > [weasel words]I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation.[/weasel words] Oh _of course_ you’re not drawing any conclusions. Nope, none at all. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/107 "2010-10-06T22:03:13Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Heh, you may not feel that grandchildren are a benefit, but your parents allegedly do > > good for them. But unless they’re ready and willing to raise them, they can want grandkids 'til doomsday for all I care. No-one in their right mind would argue that one _ought_ to have kids to make one’s parents happy - at least, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/108 "2010-10-06T22:04:58Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. It was definitely one of my main reasons. There was no way I wanted to put a child through what I had to go through and knowing there was no way I could protect said child from these things, I opted to remain childless. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/109 "2010-10-06T22:19:30Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. Possibly because we learned, in the most brutal way possible, that family - while nice - ain’t everything. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/110 "2010-10-06T22:21:44Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. Both me and my wife and my good buddy and his wife have no children and don’t want 'em. We all have great relationships with our parents and siblings. When my dad died I was utterly gutted, he was one of the very best people I ever knew. My parents were kind of proto-hippies, so growing up was very family-oriented, huggy-huggy, let’s all go do something fun together, whee! My sister is one of my best friends and we love our ma. My buddy’s wife has an _enormous_ family and their house in like grand central station with family, nieces, nephews, parents, uncles and aunts. They have great parents, spend huge amounts of time with them currently, and they still don’t want kids of their own. So while you’re “not drawing a conclusion” may want to stick that in a pipe and smoke it for a bit as an extra “observation”. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/111 "2010-10-06T22:30:34Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. Yeah right. I have a great relationship with my family, but I am absolutely childfree. On the highest level it’s because I believe most of all the world’s problems are the results of overpopulation. On a more visceral level, I find pregnancy absolutely disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/112 "2010-10-06T22:39:23Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > > [@CairoCarol](#): > > > > I take exception to the notion that pregnancy itself is necessarily a huge, life-altering ordeal (it’s the stuff that happens AFTERWARD that’s life-changing) > > \Can’t drink alcohol, can’t eat lunch meat, can’t eat soft cheese, can’t eat sushi, can’t stay in a smoky bar, can’t get in the hot tub, can’t even take a hot bath, can’t take the dance/exercise classes you used to, can’t take the medicine you want to take when you have a headache or a cold, can’t lift heavy things, can’t sleep on your stomach, can’t sleep on your back, can’t trust your own head to assess situations accurately, can’t take a satisfying poo or pee, can’t go three hours without eating, can’t stay up late because you’re so tired, can’t stay out all day because you need a nap, can’t take accustomed long walks because your joints hurt so much… > > Most likely you’ve _forgotten_ what a lot of it was like (like my mother… grrrrr), and in any case, my point was that the lesson of surrender of your own comfort and preferences for the good of another person begins as soon as you know you’re pregnant.\ It’s possible that, with the exception of the alcohol and belly-sleeping, **CarolCairo’s** pregnancy experience included none of these things. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/113 "2010-10-06T22:46:06Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. I would agree with this. I have consciously thought about not subjecting children to the kind of childhood I had. > [@suranyi](#): > > …I can describe the way I feel about it. It’s largely emotional, which is why parents and childfree people have such a hard time communicating. > … I think it’s the parents with the communications issues. They can’t seem to communicate any ideas at all without adding what their children think about it, or something cute their child said or did that they somehow relate to the subject matter. ---
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/114 "2010-10-06T22:49:27Z")
Relax Cellphone and Zealot. No need to be so defensive. My observation was about the fact the some chose to post about their relationship with their parents as a factor, as confirmed by the two posts above yours. I pointed it out because it’s not a factor that I had considered before reading their posts. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/115 "2010-10-06T22:50:21Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > > [@rayxi](#): > > > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. > > Possibly because we learned, in the most brutal way possible, that family - while nice - ain’t everything. Family is not everything but it should be a large thing. And from your statement it was a big thing, just not a good thing. Look I know people who have come from some pretty crappy childhoods who have gone on to be great parents. It is a choice you make to not repeat the mistakes of your parents, but always remember parents do try and do the right thing it is just that some parents and pretty fucked up themselves. This is a bit like an athiest arguing with a believer. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/116 "2010-10-06T22:53:28Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think it’s the parents with the communications issues. They can’t seem to communicate any ideas at all without adding what their children think about it, or something cute their child said or did that they somehow relate to the subject matter. Well, I don’t agree with that. As my kid is fond of saying, when he does that funny little dance of his, “daddy doesn’t have any communications issue”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/117 "2010-10-06T23:51:38Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@rayxi](#): > > > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. > > I would agree with this. I have consciously thought about not subjecting children to the kind of childhood I had. > > > [@suranyi](#): > > > > …I can describe the way I feel about it. It’s largely emotional, which is why parents and childfree people have such a hard time communicating. > > … > > I think it’s the parents with the communications issues. They can’t seem to communicate any ideas at all without adding what their children think about it, or something cute their child said or did that they somehow relate to the subject matter. Well now, that’s just kind of insulting. I spend all day at my computer programming job, which involves pretty sophisticated communication, without mentioning my son at all most days. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/118 "2010-10-06T23:54:31Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > > [@rayxi](#): > > > > I find it interesting that many of the posts from the “childless” camp have referred to issues they had with their own parents. Not drawing any conclusions, just making an observation. > > Possibly because we learned, in the most brutal way possible, that family - while nice - ain’t everything. Very interesting point because it really brings something up. You see, for me family really IS everything. When I was growing up, I had few friends, and none that I could really count on. But my family was totally accepting and loving. And I mean my extended family – lots of aunts, uncles, cousins. I grew up with the understanding that they were all-important, the rest of the world could vanish tomorrow. And often did. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/119 "2010-10-07T01:20:50Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There’s a sense of wanting to pass something on to the next generation: knowledge, family history, culture, etc., that is very strong in people who want children and very weak in childfree people. And that I think is the big difference between them. Just like there is more than one way to die old and lonely, there is more than one way to contribute to the next generation. I don’t need to have children to know that the world isn’t going to end when I die. I am childfree by choice and many, if not most, of the decisions I make regarding what to do with my life boil down to this idea. The only difference is that I pass on my knowledge, culture, etc. to other people’s children. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/120 "2010-10-07T02:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a sense of wanting to pass something on to the next generation: knowledge, family history, culture, etc., that is very strong in people who want children and very weak in childfree people. Uh-huh. I might recommend you don’t sit there and assume you know everyone else’s motivations. It’s really arrogant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075.md?page=7)