# Not having children and your outlook on life **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 5, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075 "2010-10-05T01:54:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/161 "2010-10-07T21:47:06Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Seriously, ‘don’t expect us to jump for joy’ is a peculiar request given that parents generally want the entire world to not only jump for joy every time they have a baby, but buy it stuff, too. [Miracle of Birth Occurs for 83 Billionth Time](http://www.theonion.com/articles/miracle-of-birth-occurs-for-83-billionth-time,775/) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/162 "2010-10-07T21:51:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > > [@DianaG](#): > > > > Seriously, ‘don’t expect us to jump for joy’ is a peculiar request given that parents generally want the entire world to not only jump for joy every time they have a baby, but buy it stuff, too. > > [Miracle of Birth Occurs for 83 Billionth Time](http://www.theonion.com/articles/miracle-of-birth-occurs-for-83-billionth-time,775/) Well, yeah. We are just all interchangable ants, our lives rendered meaningless by our multiplicity. Or at least, one can choose to look at it that way, if one wishes to. To my POV, the ‘miracle of birth’ may have happened 83 billion times for humans throughout history, but it has only happened once for my buddy Sue, and twice for my brother David’s wife. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/163 "2010-10-07T22:03:10Z")
So, congratulations to them for figuring out how to fuck 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/164 "2010-10-07T22:11:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > So, congratulations to them for figuring out how to fuck 😛 Well, obviously I don’t expect _you_ to give a shit. Nether, for that matter, do I give one about _you_. 😉 You are just another of those “83 billion” to me (and admittedly, me to you). Except for the Internet connection, of course! However, point is that I _do_ give a shit about them, and assuming you have friends and brothers, I would sorta expect you would give a shit about _them_. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/165 "2010-10-07T22:22:36Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Really? It’s because they’re _people_, and not babies? Because I’m expected to contribute to every baby shower for everyone I’ve ever known, but nobody is contributing to the “Send DianaG’s 19 Year Old to College” fund, not even the people who didn’t get the pleasure of buying DianaG’s kid a gift when she was born. I get invited to the college fund donation experience each year for people known as the “high school graduation open house.” ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/166 "2010-10-08T01:04:14Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > What is the long term gain? I really don’t see it. > > Allegedly, grandchildren - if your kids are so inclined. Supposed to be like children, only you get only the good bits. 😃 > > Seriously though - it is amazing to see how hard-wired older parents appear to be, to long for grandchildren. I’ve often wondered if there was some biological explaination for it. Certainly, I hated the more-or-less subtle pestering from my parents when I was not a parent. Heh, I finally learned about this one first hand last Christmas. I had always thought/assumed being gay was my ‘get out of jail free’ card on the whole ‘when are you giving me grandchildren’ conversation. No issues with my parents, who take the tack that gay couples having children is an unholy abomination or some such. The surprise was my father not-yet-in-law, who has said in the past that he doesn’t think gay couples should raise kids. (for reasons I’m not quite sure of) His youngest son graduated high school last year and one of the first things he asked us when we were there was…“So, have you two thought about adopting?” ARGH! Damned empty nest syndrome! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/167 "2010-10-08T03:02:58Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > \ It certainly makes more sense than vilifying children and the whole idea of having a family. Who’s vilifying children? Some of us just aren’t interested in them. ---
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/168 "2010-10-08T04:12:15Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > [@rayxi](#): > > > > \ It certainly makes more sense than vilifying children and the whole idea of having a family. > > Who’s vilifying children? Have you not read this thread? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/169 "2010-10-08T04:20:41Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Who’s vilifying children? Oh! Oh! Ooh! Me! Me! ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/170 "2010-10-08T06:40:11Z")
During the months when it comes down to choosing between food and rent, I won’t have to worry about how much Junior is eating and whether I can convince him to eat less (not to mention not having to feed twice the number of people in the first place). Same with things like clothes – at least for my own I can wait until the old ones wear out. For Junior, the clothes that fit three months ago are already too small. I don’t have to figure out how and when it’s age-appropriate to explain things like “It’s not okay to hit people when you’re mad” vs. “it’s okay to hit people if they consent and think it’s hot and you take reasonable care not to cause permanent damage.” Nor do I have to worry about possibly being walked-in-upon, and whether it will permanently scar the kid, or become a “teachable moment.” I won’t have to take time out for “teachable moments” when I’ve got other, better things I’m busy with/rather be doing, too. No screaming. The pitch of children’s shrieking makes me nauseous; always has, even as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/171 "2010-10-08T14:16:03Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > Who’s vilifying children? > > Have you not read this thread? 😕 Yes. Please point to any posts which have “villified” children. Villification: To make vicious and defamatory statements about. Saying true things, like “its expensive to raise children” and “your time is less flexible when you have children” is not villification. It’s being honest that some things come with tradeoffs. “I can’t go out of town unless I find someone to feed my geriatric cat. It is less convenient than when he was younger and I could just leave 3 bowls of dry cat food for him.” Did I just villify my cat? Uh, no. I noted an inconvenience. BTW, “I don’t like children” and “childbirth repulses me” are also not statements which villify children. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/172 "2010-10-08T14:25:23Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Heh, I finally learned about this one first hand last Christmas. I had always thought/assumed being gay was my ‘get out of jail free’ card on the whole ‘when are you giving me grandchildren’ conversation. > > No issues with my parents, who take the tack that gay couples having children is an unholy abomination or some such. The surprise was my father not-yet-in-law, who has said in the past that he doesn’t think gay couples should raise kids. (for reasons I’m not quite sure of) His youngest son graduated high school last year and one of the first things he asked us when we were there was…“So, have you two thought about adopting?” ARGH! Damned empty nest syndrome! Heh, my parents aren’t prejudiced - being gay would not have got me off the hook, not in the least. 😃 Not that their pestering did anything more than annoy me, mind. One cannot be pestered into doing something like having children - or at least, I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/173 "2010-10-08T14:48:30Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > BTW, “I don’t like children” and “childbirth repulses me” are also not statements which villify children. That’s one thing I hate about these discussions. There’s a small group of people who see the words “I don’t like kids” and somehow their minds interpret that as “I run up and kick toddlers off of their big-wheels.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/174 "2010-10-08T14:52:04Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > > > BTW, “I don’t like children” and “childbirth repulses me” are also not statements which villify children. > > That’s one thing I hate about these discussions. There’s a small group of people who see the words “I don’t like kids” and somehow their minds interpret that as “I run up and kick toddlers off of their big-wheels.” Big Wheels are so low to the ground there’s not much point. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/175 "2010-10-08T15:22:33Z")
Besides, my observation is that kids don’t have Big Wheels anymore anyway. Most are swaddled in bubble wrap and squeezed into their Maclaren’s until at least kindergarten. They’re only let out to run in restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/176 "2010-10-08T15:29:33Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > That’s one thing I hate about these discussions. There’s a small group of people who see the words “I don’t like kids” and somehow their minds interpret that as “I run up and kick toddlers off of their big-wheels.” Kids are a clearly defined subset of our population. Try substituting any other subset of our population and see what kind of reaction you get. “I don’t like Jews” “I don’t like Asians” “I don’t like women” “I don’t like men” “I don’t like gays” “I don’t like fat people” I think you are glossing over the sentiment behind that phrase. It’s not the same as saying “I don’t like Cheeze Whiz”. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/177 "2010-10-08T15:43:14Z")
> [@rayxi](#): > > Kids are a clearly defined subset of our population. Try substituting any other subset of our population and see what kind of reaction you get. > “I don’t like Jews” > “I don’t like Asians” > “I don’t like women” > “I don’t like men” > “I don’t like gays” > “I don’t like fat people” > > I think you are glossing over the sentiment behind that phrase. It’s not the same as saying “I don’t like Cheeze Whiz”. Which of these things are NOT factually true of children? Which of them ARE factually true of any of the other groups on your list? children have different intellectual capacities than adults. They don’t always understand cause & effect they can’t always control their emotions. Some times their behavior is simply inexplicable by adult standards. It is usually not appropriate to talk to a child using the same words and tone of voice as an adult Children, over time, will cease to be children. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/178 "2010-10-08T16:03:45Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > They don’t always understand cause & effect Technically, I think we can apply that one to fat people. _S’a joke, kids._ ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/179 "2010-10-08T16:11:03Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > > [@rayxi](#): > > > > Kids are a clearly defined subset of our population. Try substituting any other subset of our population and see what kind of reaction you get. > > “I don’t like Jews” > > “I don’t like Asians” > > “I don’t like women” > > “I don’t like men” > > “I don’t like gays” > > “I don’t like fat people” > > > > I think you are glossing over the sentiment behind that phrase. It’s not the same as saying “I don’t like Cheeze Whiz”. > > Which of these things are NOT factually true of children? Which of them ARE factually true of any of the other groups on your list? > children have different intellectual capacities than adults. > They don’t always understand cause & effect > they can’t always control their emotions. > Some times their behavior is simply inexplicable by adult standards. > It is usually not appropriate to talk to a child using the same words and tone of voice as an adult > Children, over time, will cease to be children. I don’t get it. What has any of that to do with not liking them? Because they are different from adults? My feelings towards those who don’t like children are exactly similar to my feelings towards those who dislike any other general group of people, like “women” or “the elderly”: it’s their choice, and there is nothing wrong with it, but it is - limiting. After all, society is made up of all sorts of people, including women, the elderly, and children; not liking one or another group as a generality must make social interactions - difficult. ---
**Author:** ![rayxi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rayxi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayxi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075/180 "2010-10-08T16:11:52Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Yes. Please point to any posts which have “villified” children. Villification: To make vicious and defamatory statements about. > > Saying true things, like “its expensive to raise children” and “your time is less flexible when you have children” is not villification. It’s being honest that some things come with tradeoffs. > > “I can’t go out of town unless I find someone to feed my geriatric cat. It is less convenient than when he was younger and I could just leave 3 bowls of dry cat food for him.” Did I just villify my cat? Uh, no. I noted an inconvenience. > > BTW, “I don’t like children” and “childbirth repulses me” are also not statements which villify children. I’m not going to dig up the exact posts to quote but I’m sure they can be easily found. Note that vilify also means [“to lower in estimation or importance”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vilify) Examples: 1. We should be “childfree” - as in free from children. As if children were a liability or a desease. Debt free. Desease free. Smoke free. Nuclear free. Child free. 2. Children are a burden. One that we should do a cost/benefit analysis on to determine if the burden is worth carrying. Denegrating children to the level of a financial transaction. 3. Childbirth is repulsive. It’s a small step to infer that only a repulsive product can come from such a repulsive process. 4. Children are a ploy by parents to get free stuff. They have no merit on their own but merely a vehicle to get more stuff from other people. I agree with you that the statement “I don’t like children” doesn’t vilify children. However, it does indicate a different level of distain and hate than most people are willing to admit. Or perhaps they are willing to admit but haven’t yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-having-children-and-your-outlook-on-life/556075.md?page=10)