# Not hiring teachers... bullshit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173 "2011-08-26T13:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/61 "2011-08-30T16:51:23Z")
> [@Tess\_Trueheart](#): > > And then, there are states like Oklahoma. [cite](http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank20.html) > > AVERAGE salary? $38,772. I’m told by my professors to expect something in the way of $25,000 to start out… assuming I get hired for a full-time position anywhere. > > Not a lot of job security either. Recent grads (in various subjects), local public school teachers, and university professors all confirm this. Granted, I’m in a less common subject area, but there is absolutely a large percentage of people who need another source of income. > > Edited to say: Your link says Illinois is the most teacher-friendly state. All other 49 pay less - some of them a lot less. I haven’t been able to find data that breaks it out by percentile, but the median household income in Oklahoma is 41.7 thousand dollars. [This site](http://teacherportal.com/salary/Oklahoma-teacher-salary) 29 thousand as a starting teacher, and 38.7 thousand average. So yeah, I’m not seeing the need for a 2nd job here. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/62 "2011-08-30T17:39:53Z")
My daughter is a senior in high school and is currently applying to education colleges at various universities. I’ve actually steered her away from the ones where she’ll graduate with a Masters degree, because it will be a deterrent in landing a job. Most districts want teachers with Master’s Degrees because it looks good on paper. There are two issues with this: 1) Getting more education doesn’t make you a more effective teacher; 2) School districts have to pay more once the teachers get a Master’s degree. With districts struggling, that pay increase is difficult to justify. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/63 "2011-08-30T18:08:37Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > If this is how this occupation works, dismissing those who’ve earned a higher salary and hiring cheaper teachers, I think I may be abandoning this career. Get out. I did after 2 years of teaching high school physics and it was the best decision I ever made. This country is so back-asswards when it comes to teachers and education, there really is no hope. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/64 "2011-08-30T18:22:55Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > My daughter is a senior in high school and is currently applying to education colleges at various universities. I’ve actually steered her away from the ones where she’ll graduate with a Masters degree, because it will be a deterrent in landing a job. Many states (I know of NY for sure) require a Masters degree to be a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/65 "2011-08-30T20:02:02Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you want. Or you go backpacking through Central America. HEY GUYS I ONCE MET A HOTEL MAID WHO HAD A VILLA IN FRANCE HOTEL MAIDS ARE THEREFORE FUCKING LOADED. > [@treis](#): > > In virtually every other profession if you want to do professional development, you do it on your own time. And typically there’s no built in salary boost for higher degrees. I know a bunch of actuaries who’d disagree. Their exams and study time are all paid for, and passing more exams/gaining higher qualifications means automatic raises and bonuses. > [@](#): > > The larger point is, the idea that teachers need to work a 2nd or 3rd job in the summer is ridiculous. Teachers in Illinois start at an average of $37,500, and all teachers combined average $58,600 a year [cite](http://teacherportal.com/salary/Illinois-teacher-salary). Plus a pension, good health insurance, incredible job security, and the aforementioned time off. 1.) You don’t know enough teachers. 2.) Wow, a \*whole \*$37k?! MY GOD, I need to quit my job right now and become a teacher!@!!! That’s totally an excellent amount of money to support a family on. 3.) As noted, you’re cherry-picking the richest salaries, and even \*those \*are unimpressive. > [@](#): > > 99% of teachers don’t have to work a 2nd, let alone 3rd job to get by. 99% of tards like to make up statistics on the spot. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/66 "2011-08-30T21:29:53Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > HEY GUYS I ONCE MET A HOTEL MAID WHO HAD A VILLA IN FRANCE HOTEL MAIDS ARE THEREFORE FUCKING LOADED. WTF are you talking about. How the fuck does “backpacking through Central America” equate with having a villa in France or being loaded. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I know a bunch of actuaries who’d disagree. Their exams and study time are all paid for, and passing more exams/gaining higher qualifications means automatic raises and bonuses. I have no idea if that’s true or not. If you note, I said typically, not every other profession. But you’re pretty stupid, so I won’t hold that mistake against you. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > 1.) You don’t know enough teachers. > 2.) Wow, a \*whole \*$37k?! MY GOD, I need to quit my job right now and become a teacher!@!!! That’s totally an excellent amount of money to support a family on. > > 3.) As noted, you’re cherry-picking the richest salaries, and even \*those \*are unimpressive. (1) Gee I try to, but they are always working 3 jobs and never have time to do anything! (2) Listen shit for brains. That’s the starting salary, and is more than enough to live on. So the idea that “You work a 2nd or 3rd job”, as if all teachers do so, is ridiculous. (3) I didn’t cherry pick shit. Illinois is where I am from. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > 99% of tards like to make up statistics on the spot. Yeah, and 100% of retarded mother fuckers like you couldn’t win an argument with a mildly retarded chimp. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/67 "2011-08-30T22:12:58Z")
**treis** , based on your performance in this thread and in [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622452), you’re not worth the effort it would take me to write a cogent, well-reasoned response. Suffice it to say that you’re an idiot who has no idea what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/68 "2011-08-30T22:23:04Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > **treis** , based on your performance in this thread and in [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622452), you’re not worth the effort it would take me to write a cogent, well-reasoned response. Suffice it to say that you’re an idiot who has no idea what you’re talking about. Point out one factual error. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/69 "2011-08-30T22:26:36Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Point out one factual error. I could if your post contained any facts, instead of disingenuous statistics and horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/70 "2011-08-30T22:33:30Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I could if your post contained any facts, instead of disingenuous statistics and horseshit. > [@treis](#): > > No, no one is getting rich as a teacher, > [@treis](#): > > but typically you get a good salary, > [@treis](#): > > a hell of a pension, > [@treis](#): > > good health insurance, > [@treis](#): > > incredible job security > [@treis](#): > > and a lot of extra time off. > [@treis](#): > > Getting an advanced degree, in most cases, bumps their salary up by several thousand dollars a year, or more. > [@treis](#): > > The larger point is, the idea that teachers need to work a 2nd or 3rd job in the summer is ridiculous. Those are all statements that can be refuted by facts. Just pick one and have at it. I’d love to hear the logic behind comparing teacher salaries to median household income counting as disingenuous statistics. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/71 "2011-08-30T23:00:18Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Those are all statements that can be refuted by facts. Just pick one and have at it. > > I’d love to hear the logic behind comparing teacher salaries to median household income counting as disingenuous statistics. I could refute them, but other people are doing a good job of it in this and the other thread. Why reinvent the wheel? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/72 "2011-08-31T06:11:57Z")
I don’t see people doing a good job of refuting anything in post 70. According to [http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml](http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml), which I think must take into account the benefits and extra leave teachers receive, teachers do well for monthly income, ranking above physiotherapists and accountants. I don’t think that yearly salaries tell the whole story here. Further, people haven’t really addressed some of the intangible benefits of teaching. It can be personally rewarding, for one thing, and teachers tend to be remembered by their students, for another. Sometimes they have a great impact upon the lives of others. Admittedly, it’s difficult to put that sort of thing on a spreadsheet. Incidentally, the [Occupational Outlook Handbook](http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos318.htm) may disagree with the following: > [@](#): > > Many states (I know of NY for sure) require a Masters degree to be a teacher. Rather, it is required in some US states to acquire a Master’s degree, but in a specified period after becoming one, not as a prerequisite. It would be a shame if somebody looking to make a career choice or decision on their major stumbled upon this thread and took the “get out at once! teaching sucks teh donkey dick!” posts at face value. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/73 "2011-08-31T15:33:55Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > **treis** , based on your performance in this thread and in [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622452), you’re not worth the effort it would take me to write a cogent, well-reasoned response. You saw that one, too, huh? I bet a teacher once killed his mother and raped his dog. Or something. > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > According to [http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml](http://www.worldsalaries.org/usa.shtml), which I think must take into account the benefits and extra leave teachers receive, teachers do well for monthly income, ranking above physiotherapists and accountants. Doesn’t factor in all the off-books hours teachers work, doesn’t factor in all of their out-of-pocket expenses for the classroom, doesn’t make any distinction between public and private, doesn’t show the distribution by experience or role… ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/74 "2011-08-31T22:42:18Z")
That’s because there are teachers who don’t work unpaid overtime, Dio. I don’t see what your other two “points” have to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173/75 "2011-08-31T22:50:40Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Get out. I did after 2 years of teaching high school physics and it was the best decision I ever made. This country is so back-asswards when it comes to teachers and education, there really is no hope. Listen to the man! To Drewtwo99 you listen! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-hiring-teachers-bullshit/594173.md?page=3)