# Not including astronauts who are the most expensive military personnel to train & produce? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 24, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342 "2014-08-24T02:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/1 "2014-08-24T02:15:38Z")
Sub captains, fighter pilots, aircraft carrier captains, military doctors, etc. What personnel does the military have the most invested in by the time they are considered trained to take on their position? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/2 "2014-08-24T02:26:16Z")
Probably Navy pilots. They have to be a college graduate, they have to go through all the officer rigamarole, they have to go to the Navy equivalent of undergraduate pilot training, and then they have to learn how to land on an aircraft carrier. All told that’s about 2 years before they even get to qualify, and even then there’s no guarantee that they don’t wash out. Air Force pilots don’t take quite so long because they don’t have to carrier qualify, but it’s still a long time, about 18 months. It took me about a year to qualify as an enlisted flyer. Typically the flying positions take the longest to produce, and therefore are the most expensive. A good case can be made for the “elite” units like the SEALs, TACPs, Pararescuemen, and Special Forces since they also have to go through a ton of schools and otherwise expensive training, but I can’t really speak to that. EDIT: If you’re going with positions like Carrier Captains, think of how long they have been in the service and what they have done for their careers. A carrier Captain is typically a career flyer, 15-20 years of experience and a ton of (expensive) flying hours, plus all the officer schools. But that’s a lot harder to quantify than the initial costs. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/3 "2014-08-24T02:26:59Z")
The captain of an aircraft carrier is a Navy pilot so he trumps fighter pilot. There’s my vote. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/4 "2014-08-24T02:32:24Z")
Well looking at it that way, they’ve probably got a lot into anyone by the time they become [CJCS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chairman_of_the_Joint_Chiefs_of_Staff). ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/5 "2014-08-24T02:50:13Z")
I’m not sure I’d count years of experience the same as years of training. You’re actually getting value from people as they work their way up the ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/6 "2014-08-24T03:25:08Z")
From the documentary television series _JAG_ it looks like Navy lawyers are trained as pilots, SEALS, Marine Drill Instructors (for some reason), are qualified to practice in law in Japanese and Australian courts, and no doubt possess extensive training in other areas. I would imagine Nuclear Technicians are fairly expensive to train and to retain. In addition to the cost of training them they typically get some pretty big reenlistment bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/7 "2014-08-24T05:42:38Z")
Special Forces Medical Sergeants get a HELL of a lot of training. And that’s not even considering their secondary MOS. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/8 "2014-08-24T07:37:47Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Probably Navy pilots. Could be. Laught though: In WWII, Aus piolots in PNG were miffed that they were so low down on the evacuation list, beneath the enlisted Aircraft engineers. Their senior officers had to be polite, non-committal, and firm: Aircraft maintainance engineers represented a much greater investment than officer-pilots. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/9 "2014-08-24T08:09:34Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Could be. Laught though: In WWII, Aus piolots in PNG were miffed that they were so low down on the evacuation list, beneath the enlisted Aircraft engineers. Their senior officers had to be polite, non-committal, and firm: Aircraft maintainance engineers represented a much greater investment than officer-pilots. That raises an interesting point: If a whole cross section of military were together somewhere that was under threat; who should be top of the list for evacuation? (Note - not who **would** be.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/10 "2014-08-24T08:19:03Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Special Forces Medical Sergeants get a HELL of a lot of training. And that’s not even considering their secondary MOS. Likewise, elite combat engineering troops (does the U.S. military have any of those?). They go through elite infantry training _and_ extensive demolition and bomb disposal studies. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/11 "2014-08-24T09:25:01Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Special Forces Medical Sergeants get a HELL of a lot of training. And that’s not even considering their secondary MOS. Nothing compared to the cost of operating an F22 for just a few hours. According to this [Time article](http://nation.time.com/2013/04/02/costly-flight-hours/), it costs almost $70,000 per hour to fly an F22. That’s not even the most expensive plane. My guess is going to be pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/12 "2014-08-24T09:26:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Likewise, elite combat engineering troops (does the U.S. military have any of those?). 18C, Special Forces Engineer Sergeant. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/13 "2014-08-24T09:33:48Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It took me about a year to qualify as an enlisted flyer. What differentiates an enlisted (warrant officer?) pilot from an officer pilot? That is, why is officership required in some cases but not others? > [@Alessan](#): > > Likewise, elite combat engineering troops (does the U.S. military have any of those?). They go through elite infantry training _and_ extensive demolition and bomb disposal studies. Elite combat engineering? You mean sabotage and sneaking-into-enemy-territory-then-blowing-up-critical-stuff troops? As for my guess, I’d say that it’s definitely a kind of pilot, most likely a B-2 pilot or an SR-71/whatever has or will replace the SR-71. Given the uniqueness of those weapon systems, the selection, training and supplementary flight hours to attain maturity must be ridiculously expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/14 "2014-08-24T09:41:58Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Could be. Laught though: In WWII, Aus piolots in PNG were miffed that they were so low down on the evacuation list, beneath the enlisted Aircraft engineers. Their senior officers had to be polite, non-committal, and firm: Aircraft maintainance engineers represented a much greater investment than officer-pilots. In World War II you got just enough training to ensure that you could take off and land without killing yourself. I exaggerate but little. When you’re running through a pilot class in around 4 months you’re not doing much else. The goal wasn’t so much to turn out the best pilots as it was to simply overwhelm the enemy with aircraft. A pilot was therefore not particularly valuable back then. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/15 "2014-08-24T09:42:49Z")
Also, this question should not include sub captains and carrier captains and other such posts because those are not occupational specialties so much as positions within the hierarchy. If they are included, then the answer to the question is simple: the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/16 "2014-08-24T09:56:43Z")
Not all Navy pilots have to land on carriers and some pilots from the other services do. There were both Marine and Air Force pilots on both carriers on which I served. Regarding the qualification to be an aircraft carrier, I don’t recall if the requirement is to be a pilot or to be either a pilot or a naval flight officer (sorry, I can’t remember the correct terminology right now). ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/17 "2014-08-24T10:00:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Regarding the qualification to be an aircraft carrier When I was little, I wanted to grow up to be an aircraft carrier but all the other kids made fun of me and broke my dreams. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/18 "2014-08-24T10:10:53Z")
Hi altitude warfare. Fighting at 20 K feet and above. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/19 "2014-08-24T10:35:00Z")
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342/20 "2014-08-24T13:43:02Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? see post #4 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-including-astronauts-who-are-the-most-expensive-military-personnel-to-train-produce/696342.md?page=2)