# Not intending to hurt doesn't take away the hurt **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 4, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783 "2011-07-04T04:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/121 "2011-07-05T20:14:48Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > You mean you regularly decline mens offers to get a door for you and these men will persist despite what you say? In all my years I’ve never heard another woman echo those sentiments. I’ve heard scores of disabled folks do so. yes, all the time. it’s particularly prevalent in the south, but by no means limited to that region. Also have gotten the dumb look when I open a door for a man. [In this thread, a Doper offers able-bodied women help down stairs and absolutely stunned and disbeleiving when told it is offensive to offer a second time when someone has already refused their help](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=521246&highlight=women+open+door+offensive). We’ve had many other threads on the subject. I assure you it is a widely experienced phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/122 "2011-07-05T20:18:48Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I’m really wondering who among the people taking **jamie** to task for his way of approaching the attitudes he faces are disabled themselves. If not, you’re telling him how to do something he has much more experienced at (be disabled, and live in the world as a disabled person) than you, and how he should feel about something you have no experience of. > > It’s almost as entertaining when straight cis people try to tell me how to conduct the queer rights movement. Well if you act like an ass, you deserve to be told so, despite how noble your cause may be. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/123 "2011-07-05T20:19:51Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Ok, so you have no real response. I would love for someone to actually point something out though. Go back and read your posts! You sound angry and bitter in all of them. That is a real response. Sorry you don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/124 "2011-07-05T20:20:55Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Well if you act like an ass, you deserve to be told so, despite how noble your cause may be. But that would be the giving same treatment to handicapped people that every other autonomous human being receives. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/125 "2011-07-05T20:21:19Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > One thing that I take particular enjoyment from is when I am approaching a doorway and there is a person coming up to the door behind me, I grab the door and, rather than just scoot myself through the door I will roll back with the door in my hand, holding it open for the person behind me. OMG, the reactions are priceless! I have a wide, nice smile on my face and I say, “Here you go”. MANY times, people simply will NOT be able to accept this. They actually attempt to take the door from me, so they can hold it for me!? I AM THE ONE HOLDING IT FOR YOU! :smack: Just accept the courtesy and go through the door. It’s common courtesy. That’s not the most common reaction though. Usually, people sputter for a moment, not knowing what to say or do, then they say “Well THANK YOU” with an amazed look on their faces. It must be nice to have all kinds of spare time on your hands so that you can manufacture scenarios that give you additional opportunities to find fault with peoples reactions to a person in a wheelchair. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/126 "2011-07-05T20:23:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > But that would be the giving same treatment to handicapped people that every other autonomous human being receives. Exactly. All these people who so rudely try to help are probably doing the same to plenty of able bodied people as well. I often go out of my way to hold the door for whoever is near me. 99 out of 100 times people appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/127 "2011-07-05T20:26:32Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > It must be nice to have all kinds of spare time on your hands so that you can manufacture scenarios that give you additional opportunities to find fault with peoples reactions to a person in a wheelchair. Yeah, I hold the door for someone and they can’t accept it because I am the one who should be in the position of “being helped”…And that’s my fault. Sorry I’m such a dick. What does this have to do with “all kinds of spare time”. Im going through a fucking door. You do that don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/128 "2011-07-05T20:27:03Z")
Sorry, refusing to not hold the door goes a lot further back according to Wikipedia… Goofy Gophers A recurring schtick often mistakenly attributed to Chip ‘n’ Dale is the characters’ alleged use of politeness: “After you,” … “No, I insist, after you!” This gag, from the early-1900s Alphonse and Gaston comic strip, is used by another studio’s characters: Warner Bros’ Mac and Tosh as the Goofy Gophers. However, in the 1950 short “Out on a Limb,” Chip ‘n’ Dale do engage in a round of this (possibly in reference to the Goofy Gophers) before Chip stops it from getting out of hand with a swift kick to Dale’s rear end. I’m surprised you didn’t ever notice this prior to your disability. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/129 "2011-07-05T20:29:37Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Exactly. All these people who so rudely try to help are probably doing the same to plenty of able bodied people as well. I often go out of my way to hold the door for whoever is near me. 99 out of 100 times people appreciate it. And AGAIN…not reading what I’m saying. “I often go out of my way to hold the door for whoever is near me” It when the people ARE NOWHERE NEAR ME, I have made this point over and over and over and over. Yet people still go back to this as if I am bitching about common courtesy. NO. I enjoy courtesy gestures just like anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/130 "2011-07-05T20:31:52Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Yeah, I hold the door for someone and they can’t accept it because I am the one who should be in the position of “being helped”…And that’s my fault. Sorry I’m such a dick. What does this have to do with “all kinds of spare time”. Im going through a fucking door. You do that don’t you? So picture this… you are not in a wheel chair and you hold the door for me and I say “no, really you first, I insist.” Am I still a dick in this case? You want to be treated the same as everyone… this is the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/131 "2011-07-05T20:33:29Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Go back and read your posts! You sound angry and bitter in all of them. That is a real response. Sorry you don’t agree. Why are you posting here? Just to tell me I’m bitter? Ok, duly noted. Thanks. I disagree because I KNOW I’m not. You still havent produced anything to back up your claims. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/132 "2011-07-05T20:34:01Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > And AGAIN…not reading what I’m saying. > > “I often go out of my way to hold the door for whoever is near me” > > It when the people ARE NOWHERE NEAR ME, I have made this point over and over and over and over. Yet people still go back to this as if I am bitching about common courtesy. NO. I enjoy courtesy gestures just like anyone else. I read it perfectly clear. I would most definitely go even further out of my way to get a door for a disabled person. If they said they didn’t need it, I’d probably say, “well I’m already here now and I didn’t mean to imply you couldn’t do it yourself.” And then I’d think, “that guy’s an ass.” ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/133 "2011-07-05T20:35:06Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Why are you posting here? Just to tell me I’m bitter? Ok, duly noted. Thanks. I disagree because I KNOW I’m not. > > You still havent produced anything to back up your claims. But most everyone thinks you are. Is everyone else wrong? Your posts are what I use to “back up my claims.” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/134 "2011-07-05T20:36:44Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I read it perfectly clear. I would most definitely go even further out of my way to get a door for a disabled person. If they said they didn’t need it, I’d probably say, “well I’m already here now and I didn’t mean to imply you couldn’t do it yourself.” And then I’d think, “that guy’s an ass.” Why would you think that? Would you think that if the disabled person said he didn’t need it BEFORE you were “already there”? While you were on your way to the door? So the idea is a handicapped person MUST accept all help at all times from anyone who offers it OR he/she is labeled an “ass” or an “angry wheelchair guy”? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/135 "2011-07-05T20:38:22Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Why would you think that? Would you think that if the disabled person said he didn’t need it BEFORE you were “already there”? While you were on your way to the door? So the idea is a handicapped person MUST accept all help at all times from anyone who offers it OR he/she is labeled an “ass” or an “angry wheelchair guy”? I’d think that because I was just trying to be a nice guy. When someone holds the door for me, I say “thanks.” What’s the big deal if someone tries to help? It doesn’t mean you aren’t capable. There are plenty of times no one will be around to help you. You are getting all worked up over nothing. There are bigger fish to fry in this world. RELAX. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/136 "2011-07-05T20:39:29Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > But most everyone thinks you are. Is everyone else wrong? > > Your posts are what I use to “back up my claims.” I guess we have nothing more to say to each other then, huh? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/137 "2011-07-05T20:40:17Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I’d think that because I was just trying to be a nice guy. When someone holds the door for me, I say “thanks.” What’s the big deal if someone tries to help? It doesn’t mean you aren’t capable. There are plenty of times no one will be around to help you. You are getting all worked up over nothing. There are bigger fish to fry in this world. RELAX. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I read it perfectly clear. I would most definitely go even further out of my way to get a door for a disabled person. If they said they didn’t need it, I’d probably say, “well I’m already here now and I didn’t mean to imply you couldn’t do it yourself.” And then I’d think, “that guy’s an ass.” Would all of you please read, again, Jamie’s original post on the subject? He has repeatedly said that he appreciates courteous gestures. He specifically stated the problem that he had with the door was as follows, and I’m putting the relevant parts in red for you: > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I flat out told him, “ **it’s easier if you DON’T do this…** ” and he continued despite this. **He ignored my pleas** and just went on “helping me”. Second, it really does make it more difficult for me when people stand in the middle of the doorway and then **expect me to be able to somehow make it thru that BLOCKED doorway**. Inevitably, it always goes something like, “Um, thanks but could you move please?” and they end up having to let go of the door they raced to get to before I could. And, believe it or not, I have actually had more than one person **YANK THE DOOR OUT OF MY HANDS** in order to hold in open for me. That’s the blessed issue that he’s having: not people who actually help, but people who are so hell-bent on their idea of helping that they 1. ignore the disabled person’s actual explicitly expressed wishes (on a subject the disabled person assuredly knows more about than they do, i.e. what help they need); 2. as a result, actually impede the disabled person. None of this is either courteous or helpful. Complaining about being ignored and impeded does not make **jamie** a bitter person with a chip on his shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/138 "2011-07-05T20:40:34Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I guess we have nothing more to say to each other then, huh? Ok, then I guess this is goodbye. I promised myself I wouldn’t cry… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/139 "2011-07-05T20:40:40Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Why are you posting here? Just to tell me I’m bitter? Ok, duly noted. Thanks. I disagree because I KNOW I’m not. > > You still havent produced anything to back up your claims. If XYZ percent of the posters think you are coming off as “angry wheel chair guy”, guess what? For those percentage of posters you ARE coming off as “angry wheel chair guy”. And I noticed you totally ignored my two previous posts. I might be inclined to try to help you out more but it seems to me you want to ignore what you don’t like or argue about it or just hear and agree with the points of view you already agree with. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783/140 "2011-07-05T20:43:44Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Your posts are what I use to “back up my claims.” “Your posts are my cite.” 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-intending-to-hurt-doesnt-take-away-the-hurt/587783.md?page=8)