# Not mean, but, can't understand strangers' love of K-9 dogs... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129 "2014-09-10T23:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/81 "2014-09-12T15:51:45Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > The dog was found not guilty. What are you on about? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/82 "2014-09-12T16:25:26Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > The bloody dog probably doesn’t even understand the concept of homelessness. He’s probably thinking “Wow, we’ve been on this Walk a really really long time.” ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/83 "2014-09-12T16:34:19Z")
> [@Lucretia](#): > > In the military dogs are _extremely_ highly regarded for the dangerous, life-saving work they do. So much so, that (in the AF, anyway),\*\* a military dog is always one rank above it’s handler\*\*, to remind the handler that when it comes time to eat/sleep/perform personal care, the dog comes first. (Bolding mine) - I did not know this. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/84 "2014-09-12T16:50:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > On the facts as stated by the OP…I’m with him. The fact that there was a formal funeral in the first place feels strange to me, the fact that it had any significance beyond the immediate ownership of the dog seems flat out weird. Depending on the size of your community, K9s are very very special to the community. They’re like an officer and a fancy new cop car rolled in to one. Our is about to get one. The police put up a post on Facebook about how we were just about to get him, and he’ll start narcotics training soon. And hopefully he can meet the community soon. The post got more likes and comments and shares than any post so far on the police page. The dog won’t just be any officer. He’ll go to the schools and visit the kids. He’ll be in the Memorial Day Parade. He’ll show up at other community events (including but not limited to K9 showcases). People will see the K9 officer driving around town. The dog won’t just be Officer White Guy With Badge. People will be like “THERE IS HARO, OUR K9!!” And then he’ll retire and people will still remember the city’s K9 officer. They’ll remember seeing him at school and in the parade and at events. They’ll remember him driving around town. And they’ll be like “That dog was a local institution. I’m gonna miss him.” And the city will probably sponsor a funeral, like they might for any officer, and people might go because, well, why not? He was a city institution. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/85 "2014-09-12T16:53:22Z")
No offense, but your town must be _really_ boring. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/86 "2014-09-12T16:56:39Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > He’ll go to the schools and visit the kids. Reminds me of when I was at school and we had a special assembly, which we unusually had to bring our bags to. There was a demonstration on stage of the effectiveness of police dogs, and afterwards were told we should all say hello to the dog on the way out. What teenager could see through such cunning and subtlety? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/87 "2014-09-12T16:56:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No offense, but your town must be _really_ boring. Absolutely. And there’s thousands of towns just like this all across America. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/88 "2014-09-12T16:57:14Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I think the reason the deaths of dogs move many people so much, even if they don’t know the dog personally, is really complicated. Dogs are a little like children, they live in the present moment and are innocent, whatever that means. They also possess qualities that we can only aspire to, such as devotion and unconditional love, and in the case of K-9s they also are astonishingly brave, willing to die for their master. But they don’t know what death is, so they’re not really making the choice to lay down their life; they are following their training. And what do you mean by unconditional love? Or even love from a dog for that matter? If you treated the dog like crap, it would still come running to you overjoyed to see you when you get home? There’s the emotion of love (or just some part of its brain lighting up because you give it food and pets and it’s a pack animal that feels some instinctual warm fuzzy from being in a pack) and then there’s love meaning you want good for the other person even if you don’t like them or even think they’re a good person. I can definitely see some of what people enjoy about dogs, but using the same language for concepts that aren’t the same between animals and humans just confuses things. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/89 "2014-09-12T16:59:52Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Absolutely. And there’s thousands of towns just like this all across America. Indeed. I live in one. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/90 "2014-09-12T17:15:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I condemn the showing of empathy towards dogs. > > Not to be mean, but because it is well known that such behavior diminishes the supply of empathy available for humans. > > It’s a scientific principle. Yeah. Empathy is an element on the periodic table, and there is a finite amount of it available. Be careful how you use it. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Some owners wish to attribute human emotions and characteristics to their pets. But what they really do is whatever work we need them to do…even if it is to be a friend. It’s not a dichotomy. It’s not as though dogs must feel emotions identical, and identically to humans, or else they are devoid of an emotional life. I have no illusions that my dog experiences emotions just the way I do, about the things I do, but she definitely has an emotional life. Ditto for the cats. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/91 "2014-09-12T17:19:43Z")
Yep - it’s been two years since K9 Mojo was on the streets, and a year since his death. People ask about him all the time. They tell me that he came to their Cub Scouts meeting, or their school assembly, etc. He was sort of a combo narcotics detecting/tracking/ambassador dog, and people liked and remember him. (No public funeral, though. He’s buried at the top of the hill.) And after my husband’s wreck, after asking whether Tony was okay? The next question was always “Is the dog okay?” Even though JO had only been on the street in that county for a few months at that time, and even though he’s not as personable as Mojo was, he’s still an admired figure to a lot of people. (Yes, he came through the wreck with barely a scratch. And anyone who thinks that K9s and their handlers aren’t partners didn’t see that dog when he was reunited with his “Daddy.” Not a dry eye in the house, and the house included a room full of experienced cops, a middle-aged nurse who was a veteran of the Russian army, and a surgeon who’s a major in the US Army reserves.) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/92 "2014-09-12T18:42:34Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > But they don’t know what death is, so they’re not really making the choice to lay down their life; they are following their training. Yes, they do. All animals do. It’s instinctive. And no, dogs aren’t trained to _die_ for us. How would that even work? “Ok, Rover - die, Rover, die!” _infarct_ “Good dog! Good dog Rover! Here’s a treat!” … … “Well, shit.” > [@](#): > > And what do you mean by unconditional love? Or even love from a dog for that matter? If you treated the dog like crap, it would still come running to you overjoyed to see you when you get home? Yes. That’s why people abuse dogs - because the dogs, with rare exceptions, don’t fight back against their own people. > [@](#): > > There’s the emotion of love (or just some part of its brain lighting up because you give it food and pets and it’s a pack animal that feels some instinctual warm fuzzy from being in a pack) and then there’s love meaning you want good for the other person even if you don’t like them or even think they’re a good person. It sounds like you don’t know a whole lot about dogs. Dogs have been giving their lives for their masters (and their masters’ property) for thousands of years. Some of them are bred to be specialists at it. Some of them are caught up in circumstances beyond their control. > [@](#): > > I can definitely see some of what people enjoy about dogs, but using the same language for concepts that aren’t the same between animals and humans just confuses things. Dogs are not some alien species … actually, let me turn this around. Humans are not some alien species completely unique and capable of things that nothing else on the planet can even approach. Earlier, you mentioned that spark that lights up the brains. Humans have the same sort of brain structures and the same sort of hormonal system as the other mammals on the planet. The same chemical that makes human hearts beats faster, drives theirs as well. Other mammals have the same recognizable brain structures that humans have, in different configurations. Human bodies are better at somethings and worse at others compared to the rest of the mammalians. That makes us _different_, not _incomparable_. Dogs and humans have spent the last twenty thousand years evolving in a symbiotic relationship. We got a partner who guards our families and provides us food. They get - what? Food? They don’t need us for that. They can feed themselves. Shelter? They don’t need it. They have outdoor coats. Even their feet don’t freeze in the winter. Water? Their sense of smell will lead them too it. Family. Friendship. Social life. That’s what they get from us. We’re their family. That’s how dogs think of us, with their so-called inferior brains. We’re their pack. We’re their home. We are _everything_ to them. And mostly, they get shit on, for it. If that’s not “real” love, than love isn’t worth spit. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/93 "2014-09-12T18:56:33Z")
That’s one definition of love. Another is wanting good for another no matter how they make them feel, wanting good for people you don’t know about who have given you nothing. Dogs can’t imagine that. And if you are saying that dogs know what death is, I can’t see how. As mentioned, they live in the moment; how could they conceptualize the future and existing and then not existing? But yeah, if you don’t think humans are unique and capable of things no other species are, we don’t have much to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/94 "2014-09-12T19:18:44Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > And then he’ll retire and people will still remember the city’s K9 officer. They’ll remember seeing him at school and in the parade and at events. **They’ll remember him driving around town.** And they’ll say, “Gee, I sure hope that dog has a license.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/95 "2014-09-12T19:36:19Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Yes, they do. All animals do. It’s instinctive. Cite? Even assuming by “all animals” you mean “more than a few genera” (without a cite of any kind I would bet a large sum on the fact that insects, which include the majority of all species on Earth, have no concept of death, or anything else) I think this is wrong. It seems far more likely that animals instinctively avoid circumstances that would cause them to die (or otherwise fail to reproduce). For a rabbit, that means doing whatever is necessary to hide from foxes, not a thought process of “I don’t want to die, and this fox might kill me, so I’ll avoid it”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/96 "2014-09-12T21:33:23Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > That’s one definition of love. Another is wanting good for another no matter how they make them feel, wanting good for people you don’t know about who have given you nothing. Half of the people on this board can’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/97 "2014-09-12T21:39:58Z")
Maybe dog affection is like dog years - multiply by seven. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/98 "2014-09-12T22:25:02Z")
Emergency Update! In re: my being a troll. For some reason, I had not made the mental shift from being in the other Forums; ergo, I was, while arguing my position, I was also in a bit of a fog as to why I was being called a troll. It was a simple misunderstanding, on my part. Yes, we all had known we were in the Pit…it was just one of those things; I just wasn’t with the program. So, those who called me names: carry on, and, you are all a bunch of classless, hillbilly fucks to boot. And, the reason I was laughing at you wasn’t because I was trolling, it was for the same reason that we all can find amusement in a drunk shitting himself and falling down in public. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/99 "2014-09-12T22:34:03Z")
For what it’s worth, harry, I don’t think you’re a troll. A jerk, sure, but “troll” honestly hadn’t occurred to me. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129/100 "2014-09-12T22:35:07Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > No, your reaction is stupid. By that, I mean that no intelligent thought was required. It was too much effort to think about it, so you took the easy way out and let your emotions do the work. > > If you think the question is stupid, demonstrate that instead of attempting to disguise your inability to address it with implications of superiority. It’s a perfectly reasonable question. I’d even call it a good question, if I do say so myself, and the fact that you can’t answer it without insults is your own failing, not mine. > > Again, if dogs in similar situations are brave, does the same apply to carrier pigeons? > > Note that the question would make no sense if I were unaware that carrier pigeons are not dogs, but thanks for the zoology lesson. Your question was, of course, right on the mark. A fucking animal is a fucking animal. The dog was no more informed than the pigeon was. Just because a dog comes up and smiles and licks one’s face, and goes where it is told, doesn’t make it brave, loving, smart, etc…It means it wants to hump your leg and get some Beggin Strips. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-mean-but-cant-understand-strangers-love-of-k-9-dogs/698129.md?page=6)