# Not Much On Baseball, But This Caught My Eye This Morning: **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 10, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323 "2009-10-10T17:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/1 "2009-10-10T17:29:25Z")
> **[Another call for instant replay](https://sports.yahoo.com/jp-replay101009.html)** > > Umpire Phil Cuzzi's failure to see a ground-rule double 10 feet away is the latest case to expand replay. Does football have this problem, and as my wife said, the roar of the crowd _ought_ to be an indication that something needs to be looked at a tad more closely? Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/2 "2009-10-10T17:32:36Z")
No, no, and no. Post season baseball games run long as it is. I do not want to see challenge flags and endless replays only to hear, “The call on the field stands…” Mistakes happen, they’re part of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/3 "2009-10-10T17:43:48Z")
No matter **how** many mistakes and what the outcome of the game may have meant to the team or their fans? Thanks, **dale** Quasi ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/4 "2009-10-10T17:48:38Z")
Yup, no matter how many mistakes. Baseball is a game, not a controlled physics experiment. There are games where a long fly ball would be a homer except for the wind. There are games that might have been won if a player hadn’t gone on a drinking binge the previous day. There are games where an automatic tarp machine injures a star player. There are games where an umpire will miss a call. Even with instant replay, there have been bad Super Bowl calls. Just ask the Arizona Cardinals and Seattle Seahawks. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/5 "2009-10-10T17:57:55Z")
Points taken, thanks **dalej42**! 🙂 Q ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/6 "2009-10-10T17:59:27Z")
Baseball does have limited instant replay; the announcers said the foul call was a “boundary call” and not reviewable. I’m not against expanding replay to include those calls, but there will always be non-reviewable calls and there will be mistakes made there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/7 "2009-10-10T18:07:21Z")
Hmmmm. Maybe you two ought to respond to this guy’s article? I am sure he has probably already heard from a bunch of folks about this and y’all sure make some very good arguments! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/8 "2009-10-10T18:58:37Z")
Put instant replay into the game… make the pitcher stay on the mound and the batter stay in the batter’s box until the batter is either out or on base, and you will have no problems with time delays. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/9 "2009-10-10T20:54:05Z")
The technology exists to get the calls correct. Baseball owes it to its fans to get the game as right as possible. I don’t love asking for replays over and over, but sometimes it is an absolute necessity. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/10 "2009-10-10T21:22:22Z")
> **[MLB on ESPN - Scores, Stats and Highlights](https://www.espn.com/mlb/)** > > Visit ESPN for MLB live scores, video highlights and latest news. Stream exclusive games on ESPN+ and play Fantasy Baseball. The other problem is that some portion of the umpires aren’t very good, and they still let those guys do postseason games for some inexplicable reason. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/11 "2009-10-10T21:24:40Z")
Just because the NFL has a terribly inefficient replay system, doesn’t mean you can’t design one that is fast. There is no reason that a call can’t take more than a minute or two to review. Certainly less time than it takes for the manager to come out and argue. Every effort should be made to ensure that the players get the outcomes they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/12 "2009-10-10T22:22:30Z")
That play was obvious and it would not have required any time to fix. ---
**Author:** ![jimmycolorado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@jimmycolorado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmycolorado)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/13 "2009-10-11T05:44:06Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > That play was obvious and it would not have required any time to fix. And yet no one on the field or in the Minnesota dugout protested it in anyway. It was a mistake. The best reason I’ve heard is that the Outfielder, Melky Cabrera, was wearing white shoes, and the Umpire mistook his footfall (which landed foul) for the ball. It’s probably the only feasible explanation I’ve come across with regards to this play (which says a lot, because it’s barely feasible as it stands). I sympathize with the Twins, but basing a call to act on this one botched play, as egregious and obvious as it is to us all after the fact, seems kinda like sour grapes to me. I was listening to the game on the radio (as I am without TV), and the announcers missed the call. Seeing the replay in youtube, those announcers missed it as well. Again, no one on the field or in the dugout complained or protested. It was a missed call. The TV announcer got it right after having seen the replay, which is great, but imagine the article writer from the link above got his wish, and baseball had instant replay. Where would the onus have come from to actually examine that play, considering precisely zero people made a fuss about it at the time? Would MLB teams employ a small army of replay watchers like NFL teams do? Who then warn the dugout and direct them to “throw the red flag”? It would further destroy the already slow pace of playoff games. And I wonder: how fast one could get a replay, make the call to the manager, tell him what to do, etc. etc. all before another pitch is thrown? (I’m going to presume, if the above scenario was reality, that throwing a pitch would continue the game, and if thrown, would nullify any “flag throwing” attempts, similar to “getting off a play” in football before the flag is thrown nullifies the red flag challenge.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/14 "2009-10-11T06:48:20Z")
> [@jimmycolorado](#): > > And yet no one on the field or in the Minnesota dugout protested it in anyway. It was a mistake. The best reason I’ve heard is that the Outfielder, Melky Cabrera, was wearing white shoes, and the Umpire mistook his footfall (which landed foul) for the ball. It’s probably the only feasible explanation I’ve come across with regards to this play (which says a lot, because it’s barely feasible as it stands). > > I sympathize with the Twins, but basing a call to act on this one botched play, as egregious and obvious as it is to us all after the fact, seems kinda like sour grapes to me. I was listening to the game on the radio (as I am without TV), and the announcers missed the call. Seeing the replay in youtube, those announcers missed it as well. Again, no one on the field or in the dugout complained or protested. It was a missed call. What makes it worse, in my opinion, is that they have extra umpires during the post season whose sole job is to make calls along the foul lines. I don’t know that I’d join the call for instant replay, but there’s a hell of a lot of room for improvement. Umpires are graded on their performance, and the best are given the honor of working the playoffs. When one of the elite umps has one call to make, and can’t tell the difference between a baseball and a shoe, that’s just not good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/15 "2009-10-11T07:01:07Z")
Umpires miss calls sometimes. It’s just part of the game. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/16 "2009-10-11T07:12:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Umpires miss calls sometimes. It’s just part of the game. Fuck that. I’m sick of hearing this stupid argument. There’s no good reason incorrect calls need to be a part of the game. We now have better equipment than the umpire’s eyes. If we let a batter step out of the box for 30 seconds after every pitch if he wants, we have time to fix crappy calls via video. Hell, even balls and strikes are handled better by computerized ball-tracking than by a behind-the-plate ump. I watched the ump in the Tigers/Twins game call strikes that were eight inches outside the zone. There’s simply no excuse for it. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/17 "2009-10-11T08:47:04Z")
Stepping back in with my sick mind for a moment? Yeah, if we can gauge the the speed of a ball, we ought to have the technology to correct a bad call? Unless, of course, we give it over to “tradition”, and leave it there?🙂 Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/18 "2009-10-11T11:21:31Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > There’s no good reason incorrect calls need to be a part of the game. We now have better equipment than the umpire’s eyes. There will always be disputed calls no matter what technology you implement. What kind of equipment is going to be looking at a swipe tag on a steal of second, a gloved ball under and outfielder’s body? Do you want to stop every play and have a team of judges discuss it with a hundred camera angles? There are fields of human endeavor with a subjective element. This is one of them. [Quote=garygnu] Hell, even balls and strikes are handled better by computerized ball-tracking than by a behind-the-plate ump. I watched the ump in the Tigers/Twins game call strikes that were eight inches outside the zone. [/QUOTE] > [@Quasimodem](#): > > Yeah, if we can gauge the the speed of a ball, we ought to have the technology to correct a bad call? You’re both assuming that the TV ball/strike thing and radar guns are accurate and there’s no reason to believe that. Every fan thinks he’s calling balls and strikes better from the stands the the guy standing behind the catcher. I don’t imagine that if a laser tracking system was implemented that people wouldn’t be complaining about that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Obeseus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbce88/32.png) [@Obeseus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obeseus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/19 "2009-10-11T13:35:26Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Umpires are graded on their performance, and the best are given the honor of working the playoffs. That’s how it used to be, but it’s been a rotation basis for several years now. That way, every umpire gets a slice of the pie – the extra dollars for working the post season. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323/20 "2009-10-11T14:21:29Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Hell, even balls and strikes are handled better by computerized ball-tracking than by a behind-the-plate ump. I watched the ump in the Tigers/Twins game call strikes that were eight inches outside the zone. There’s simply no excuse for it. I agree that that umpire missed several ball/strike calls in the later parts of that game, but I don’t give props to that TV indicator. The big thing is that it doesn’t account for ball movement. It can curve and hit any part of the strike zone and still be a strike. As a former little league ump (not that that qualifies me in any way) I was “calling” the pitches myself and then looking at what the TV said. It was very much off on several pitches that had movement. I can’t tell how that left field umpire missed that call. He was looking right at it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-much-on-baseball-but-this-caught-my-eye-this-morning/513323.md?page=2)