# Not pit-level annoyance, just a peeve about pedo and rape hysteria... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470 "2010-11-30T22:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/61 "2010-12-01T14:53:23Z")
Oh I did read it. Then I read your OP again twice. Why put the quotes around rape and date rape? Why say it’s a lesser not as harmful rape? Why use your personal event and say it wasn’t a fairytale moment? No, you really haven’t answered those questions other than with your attitude in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/62 "2010-12-01T15:12:03Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > Are there any states that take a more reasonable approach to the he’s 17 she’s 18 so she raped him thing? Like at least something wherein you can boink anyone within 3-4 years of your age or something? > > To add to **Stoid** ’s point in a slightly different direction, I think it’s hugely unfortunate that pedophiles are attracted to children. Sexuality is a huge part of us, and what are you supposed to do if you happen to be wired in a manner that would damage children if you acted on it? That’s why I’m all for cartoon/CG child porn-- there’s at least an outlet for those people. Well, I have always figured that there are plenty of people who have pedophile-type desires, who never act on them, simply because they are not sociopaths. For example, I have some strange fetishes, involving watching attractive women in skimpy costumes (superheroines) getting knocked unconscious by various means, but I keep it on “fantasy-level” only. Odd desires do not necessarily lead to criminal-type behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/63 "2010-12-01T15:23:23Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > No, you really haven’t answered those questions I’m not going to repost what I’ve already posted. read every I’ve made. Carefully. And you’ll discover that your question "Why say it’s a lesser not as harmful rape? " isnt’ a valid one. (Because I would have had to have made that assertion in the first place. Since you are so familiar with the thread you’ll be able to show me the quotes where i say that “it” (which is what, exactly?) is “a lesser not as harmful rape”. As for my use of quotes and the deep meaning you discern from it… I put quotes around the word “rape” by itself and the term “date rape” as well. Does that mean that I find rape less real than date rape, or the reverse? I also put quotes around the word “date”…does that mean I think dates are realer or less real than rapes? i’m confused…:rolleyes: Honest to god, you will find SCADS of genuine information in the WORDS I use and the SENTENCES I create with them… even more meaning in the paragraphs! Why, if you look at all of it, you’ll just bubble over with understanding of what I mean. But if you want to look for something to take offense at by studying my punctuation, well, I guess you can do that too, I’m just not going to waste my time on it. ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/64 "2010-12-01T15:41:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Shes a child incapable of consent. That’s hard biology, not an opinion. Their brains have not finished developing yet. Unless you can prove that some 15 year olds magically develop their brains faster than others, then your fantasy that any of them can give meaningful consent is unfounded. Your contempt for child rape victims is fucking disgusting. Just to check, are you describing every 15 year old who has had sex (where the age of consent is 15) a child rape victim? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/65 "2010-12-01T16:09:49Z")
I’m just jumping in to say, Stoid, don’t have a melt down. Just ignore it when others act as if they haven’t seen your dozens of qualifiers. I have given up on starting certain threads on the dope, because I notice that I get post after post responding to something I haven’t said. You have been crystal clear in your posts. Anyone who still thinks you are speaking to anything other than your own experience is just failing to comprehend clearly worded posts. The fault is not yours. Furthermore, I agree mostly with your OP. We disagree on some of your ideas, but the main gist, I feel you on. I hate the idea of ‘thought police’. If a pedo is keeping his sickness under controll and not hurting anyone, I don’t hate him, and I actually pity his burden. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/66 "2010-12-01T16:10:17Z")
So, Dio… if a 15 year old boy stops you and your wife on the street, points a gun at you, steals your stuff and shoots your wife in the face… you cool with letting him off the hook with maybe some counseling, seeing as how his little brain is so underdeveloped he can’t possibly be capable of taking any responsibility for what he does? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/67 "2010-12-01T16:17:45Z")
> [@grey\_ideas](#): > > Just to check, are you describing every 15 year old who has had sex (where the age of consent is 15) a child rape victim? If the guy is 30 (which was the hypothetical raised in this thread), then yes. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/68 "2010-12-01T16:18:10Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I have given up on starting certain threads on the dope, because I notice that I get post after post responding to something I haven’t said. You have been crystal clear in your posts. Anyone who still thinks you are speaking to anything other than your own experience is just failing to comprehend clearly worded posts. The fault is not yours. Thank you. I’ve been participating on message boards for almost 25 years, and the disintegration of what once made it great has been heartbreaking: the fact that everyone’s words are right there to see, so no getting bogged down in debates about who said what. Back in the day (she says as she smokes her corncob pipe and rocks in her rocking chair) when public conversation like this was new, everyone respected the fact that most of the bullshit that occurs in oral discourse was removed: no interrupting, talking over each other, and best of all, none of the “You said X!” No I didn’t! Yes you did!..because it’s all right there! But as the years have passed, I’ve watched people slowly morph into who they are without the black and white text, playign exactly the same games, same bullshit…while I feel like I’m standing out here frantically shoving the words under people’s noses saying “Hey, wait, it’s right here, remember?” and they look away and act like I’m invisible. It’s maddening. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/69 "2010-12-01T16:18:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So, Dio… if a 15 year old boy stops you and your wife on the street, points a gun at you, steals your stuff and shoots your wife in the face… you cool with letting him off the hook with maybe some counseling, seeing as how his little brain is so underdeveloped he can’t possibly be capable of taking any responsibility for what he does? Nope. He’s still dangerous. Just because he doesn’t fully comprehend what he’s doing doesn’t mean he’s not dangerous. And incomplete comprehnsion doesn’t mean _no_ comprehension. Kids that age have not devloped a sense of long term ramifications and consequences, but that doesn’t mean they can’t have functional understandings of the law or “right and wrong.” Nice strawman, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/70 "2010-12-01T16:24:25Z")
You need to look up the meaning of strawman. Thanks for answering. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/71 "2010-12-01T16:32:56Z")
I do agree that a _legitimate_ and overdue concern for sexual self-determination and ending coercive sexual practices has unfortunately been blended with a creepy obsession with (especially) child and (also) feminine sexual “innocence and purity” (as if the damage was sex not coercion). Children over a wide span of years tend, to varying extents, to be sexually active with other people. It is best if those other people are close to their own age. The wrongness of rape is not contingent on how distraught and emotionally ruined the victim is. Not everyone who survives rape and comes out of it mostly pissed off rather than horrified and shattered is “in denial” about their feelings. (And “needing” for women to be destroyed by it is part of the fetish of purity and innocence). It certainly CAN be that way, as rape is a very personally invasive kind of coercion, but each person reacts and copes in her own way. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/72 "2010-12-01T16:38:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > We don’t put girls in prison for not being able to give legal consent either. What are you talking about? You wrote: > [@](#): > > No there isn’t. You fuck a child. You go to prison. Its simple. There are no extenuating circumstances. It’s not that simple. I am telling you there are men who fucked a child and who we systematically do not send to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/73 "2010-12-01T16:46:42Z")
Well, obviously not. I was talking about what _should_ be. Obviously the majority of men who sexually exploit teenage girls never suffer any real life consequences, but I wish they would. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/74 "2010-12-01T17:00:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > So? That wasn’t your first post. Your first post was: > > You mention her by name, imply that she’s crazy or at least talking out of her mind, and don’t even have the decency to talk to her directly. That’s not the comment of a concerned person. That’s an ad hominem–an attempt to discredit the OP not because her arguments are bad, but by casting aspersions on her character. In other words, an attack. Asking if someone who has suffered trauma has seen a therapist is not calling her “crazy”. If that were the case every violent crime victim, in fact ever soldier returning from combat would be “crazy”. maybe you need to reassess what it means to see a therapist, and why you have a negative stigma about it? maybe Stoid too, because I suspect that she feels the same way about my question, and that is why she lashed out - she thinks the mere question was impugning her reputation, apparently she is more concerned about that aspect of her reputation that her self-professed sluttiness back a that time of the event in question concerns her. > [@](#): > > And then you continue on that rant. You claim that you think she’s really a victim, but are you treating her like a victim? No, you admit you want to Pit her. Uh no - the attack is all in your head - and maybe hers too. > [@](#): > > If she’s just deluded by the trauma, why would you want to hurt her more, rather help her see the error, and get help? It is not my responsibility to get her help. I did suggest as a concerned reader, that her approach to the issue (and others) smacked of someone who might benefit from talking this out with a pro. She and you took umbrage to thatg. Why? If she told us she was living with chronic pain wouldn’t our first words be “have you seen a doctor about it?” > [@](#): > > Okay, so maybe it isn’t that you think she’s a victim. Maybe you just think her opinion is so appalling that it warrants such treatment. So where’s your attack on everyone else who agrees with her? Oh, wait, you only have a problem with Stoid. Why could that be? No attack on others because there was no attack on **Stoid** , although she perceived one and pushed back. then maybe there was a little extra-curricular pushing and shoving as they say on football games, but initially, no. Apparently I alone am curious as to her underlying motivation for her bizarre opinion, she has started to express it, which I credit her for, but she seems both unwilling and unable to try to go beyond that. Without anything more, I find her attempt to draw generalities for society out of her specific anecdotal experience as a curiosity worth noting, but not persuasive in the least. > [@](#): > > I can definitely see why Stoid thinks this is just yet another attack on her. Me too. Doesn’t make it so. > [@](#): > > I’m going to be more charitable, and say it’s because she doesn’t fit into your worldview. “She’s been raped, and doesn’t think it was the most horrible thing in the world. She must be deluded by trauma, but no one believes me.” You brought up her past behavior and mischaracterized her posts, not because you hate her, but because you were angry and irrationally thought it would help you score a point against her. Remind me not to hire you to be my spokes person, you just made that nonsense up out of whole cloth. Sort of what you just finished accusing me of doing 🙂 > [@](#): > > And, anyways, I’ll point out that I agree with **Stoid** , as well. Just because rapes are under-reported or disbelieved doesn’t mean that a sizable portion don’t overreact, losing the ability to think rationally. It is annoying, and I could have made the exact same post she did. I just don’t because I know some people here can’t discuss this topic rationally, whether for good reasons or bad. Then maybe you can tell us what she hasn’t (haven’t finished reading the overnight posts yet so maybe she has since then): Whap specific attitudes do you suspect she means, for what specific people, and how will she reconcile it with the law (a profession she has damned nonsensically and at hilarious length in the past)? In fact, I was tryoing to assess her willingness to speak ratinally, and see failed. I asked her if he had spoken to qualified therapists over the intervening 35 or so years. I asked her for cites and clarifications of her assertins of fact in her OP (not her opinions). No answer was forthcoming for any of that. Like you (apparently), I value a rational discussion. It is just hat, as usual, there is nothing rational forthcoming from **Stoid** on one of her threads. Even ignoring the history, there is nothing rational from her here on this thread. > [@](#): > > But, according to your logic, I guess I was raped, too, and it was just so traumatic that I’ve completely forgotten about it. That doesn’t even make sense to me. How would I know about your being raped. But if a woman **Stoid** ’s age (pretty close to mine btw) came to me personally with essentially the same story (which I hardly think is uncommon), I would think more than a hug and a “there, there” is in order, but I sure wouldn’t support her by saying that she is right, society needs to change, that is all that is wrong and has been wrong lo these many years - it’s society’s fault. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/75 "2010-12-01T17:09:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > You and everyone else need to stop making the leap that I’m saying that **my** idea of what’s minor or major should be the determining factor. I haven’t said that. Actually, you HAVE said that. Your posts are a mixture of opinions, assertions of fact, and conjecture. Me personally, I am holding off my opinion on you overall point until you clarify your assertions of fact, some (most?) of which I find questionable but am wiling to consider your cites should they ever be forthcoming. > [@](#): > > So **please** pay closer attention, it really gets so damn frustrating to have to go back, quote myself, point to posts I’ve already made and say over and over and over: "See what I said 5, 15, 20 posts back? See what I said right out the gate? See what I said here? SEE SEE SEE? SEE WHERE I DIDN’T SAY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING I SAID? SEE??? Maybe that should be evidence that you are not being as clear, let alone as persuasive as you wish to be? > [@](#): > > Please. Seriously. PLEASE. If you want to give me shit about what I say, I’m ready and willing, no problem at all…but I am SO FUCKING SICK of having to show people that I DIDN’T FUCKING SAY whatever they are giving me shit for and a whole BUNCH Of the time I said JUST THE REVERSE. That is BS. I asked you repeatedly for clarification and you ignored me. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/76 "2010-12-01T17:11:40Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Oh, and (obviously, I would think) I’m not just talking about this thread…this is a perpetual problem. > > All done. Funny. I said the same thing about your threads, and **BigT** inferred I hate you. but in reality, it just proves I have been paying attention. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/77 "2010-12-01T17:18:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Shes a child incapable of consent. That’s hard biology, not an opinion. Their brains have not finished developing yet. Unless you can prove that some 15 year olds magically develop their brains faster than others, then your fantasy that any of them can give meaningful consent is unfounded. Your contempt for child rape victims is fucking disgusting. Not exactly true - what you are discussing is a compromise of law when applied to the statistical distributions of science. Not all brains mature at the same rate - if you mapped “sufficient maturity to understand consent” vs. “age” you would have something more akin to a bell curve - some out on both tails, everyone different from reach other. That is why I find your view and Stoid’s to be diametrically opposite and extreme. In spite of the evidence, you are willing to assign one extreme option under the law out of all the choices. **Stoid** OTOH, seems to be willing to go the other way in the extreme - blame the victim: “she was drunk!” or “she had ‘grass on the field’ so she knew what could happen”. Bizarre really, both of you. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/78 "2010-12-01T17:21:23Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Since you are so familiar with the thread you’ll be able to show me the quotes where i say that “it” (which is what, exactly?) is “a lesser not as harmful rape”. You said that if a girl gets drunk, that is at least a factor in determining the severity of a rape, perhaps that it is not even a rape at all merely because she was drunk. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/79 "2010-12-01T17:24:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, obviously not. I was talking about what _should_ be. Obviously the majority of men who sexually exploit teenage girls never suffer any real life consequences, but I wish they would. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/80 "2010-12-01T17:39:07Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > you attack Cite? > [@not\_alice](#): > > she lashed out Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=5)