# Not pit-level annoyance, just a peeve about pedo and rape hysteria... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470 "2010-11-30T22:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/101 "2010-12-01T20:14:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It doesn’t require a cite. Only a moron would deny it. I’m shocked, shocked I tells ya. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/102 "2010-12-01T20:15:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No there isn’t. You fuck a child. You go to prison. Its simple. There are no extenuating circumstances. It’s always scummy. No exceptions. There are no “details” that could possibly matter. Our attitudes about the sexual exploitation of teenage girls by adult males needs to become _less_ tolerant, not more so. Save your sympathy for the victims not the criminals. Um, detail: you are 18, she is 17. That detail means nothing to you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/103 "2010-12-01T20:18:13Z")
I’m ok with Romeo and Juliet exceptions, but that’s not what we were talking about. The hypothetical was a 30 year and a 15 year old. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/104 "2010-12-01T20:20:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She said flat out that date rape is a “lesser rape.” That’s not case by case. That’s a blanket statement, and it’s an offensive statement. I found where Stoid said she considered her rape ‘lesser’, not a generalized statement that ‘date rape’ is a ‘lesser rape’. Did I miss something? Or do you deny that a person has a right to consider their own rape on their own terms? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/105 "2010-12-01T20:24:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I found where Stoid said she considered her rape ‘lesser’, not a generalized statement that ‘date rape’ is a ‘lesser rape’. Did I miss something? Yes. You missed that she said her experience was an _example_ of a “lesser kind of rape,” and it was said within a greater context of a statement that “not all rape is equal,” and a rant clearly meant to disparage the idea that date rape is really rape. She also intimated that she was to blame for her own rape by callingherself a “slut,” who was “giving it away to almost anybody.” Those are characvterizations she cannot just make about herself wthout implying that other “slutty” victims also deserve it. > [@](#): > > Or do you deny that a person has a right to consider their own rape on their own terms? No, but **Stoid** apparently does. She’s the one who doesn’t think victims of date rape have the right to feel traumatized by it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/106 "2010-12-01T20:35:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Forgive me for wandering into a topic already this far into the discussion, but what do you do about the blurry line between when a woman is kind of drunk but still somewhat lucid and totally drunk but hasn’t passed out? I think the law is the way it is because there would be more problems with men claiming the girl consented than women who simply got a little tipsy, had sex, and regretted it but claimed it was rape > > How do you seperate the actual drunken rapes from the ones who just had a little too much to drink and thought that guy looked kind of cute now? I dunno, how does the law separate between the driver who is kinda drunk and only drives a few blocks and the driver who is shitfaced and mows down a few kids while driving backwards on the highway. READ THE GODDAMN THREAD. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/107 "2010-12-01T20:39:27Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > I was summarizing Ah, “summarizing”. Kinda like “interpreting” or maybe “translating”. How about “paraphrasing”? It all sounds so much better than “making shit up to argue with.” Be way easier if you skip the summarizing, since you suck at it, and just work with the material that’s right here not needing any “summarizing”. When you do that, I might return to discussing it with you. But I’m not your monkey, to quote Jon Stewart. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/108 "2010-12-01T20:43:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m ok with Romeo and Juliet exceptions, but that’s not what we were talking about. The hypothetical was a 30 year and a 15 year old. The point that I think Stoid has been trying to get across is that there is a sliding scale, a grey area, not a bright line that you cross and become an insane criminal “child”\* rapist. It sounds like you’d be OK with a 15 y/o and a 16 y/o getting it on. If there’s a 1 year difference Romeo and Juliet law, then that’s ok. But someone two months older than that 16 y/o does it, and it suddenly becomes a crime. What is the difference in moral culpability between the two? Virtually none. [note: I said moral, not legal.] \*A teenager is neither a child nor an adult, but something in between. I agree that a 30 y/o and a 15 y/o is scummy, legal or not, and so is a 20 y/o and a 15 y/o. But 19, 18, 17 and a half, when does the transition occur from “scummy” to “ok”? There’s no exact point. And I’d also argue that while a 15 year old may not be able to give fully informed consent, there is certainly a world of difference between a statutory rape and a forcible rape of an actual child, which even the law acknowledges. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/109 "2010-12-01T20:46:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you dispute it? Are you aware of the statistics for rape convictions? Are you aware of how underreported it is? Do you really think that the majority of men who have sex with underaged girls ever face legal consequences? And your actual cite as opposed to your opinion is what again? doesn’t matter if I dispute it or not, I am asking for you to provide a cite to see if this is merely your opinion masquerading as fact, or something that is _actually_ a fact on which I can take your word. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/110 "2010-12-01T20:48:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes. You missed that she said her experience was an _example_ of a “lesser kind of rape,” and it was said within a greater context of a statement that “not all rape is equal,” and a rant clearly meant to disparage the idea that date rape is really rape. She also intimated that she was to blame for her own rape by callingherself a “slut,” who was “giving it away to almost anybody.” Those are characvterizations she cannot just make about herself wthout implying that other “slutty” victims also deserve it. > No, but **Stoid** apparently does. She’s the one who doesn’t think victims of date rape have the right to feel traumatized by it. > [@Stoid](#): > > My own personal example of a lesser kind of rape had the following clue about why I considered it a low-level sort of rape, when I described myself as… You have extracted a portion of a statement, and presented it out of context. She made it very clear that ‘lesser’ was her opinion of her own rape, not a generalization about rape. Then you contend that any differentiation between rapes means that ‘date rape’ isn’t really rape. She never said that either. She does seem to associate promiscuity with ‘deserving rape’. But that does not mean she has no responsibility for going to a bathroom alone with a sailor. It does not diminish his responsibility for his crime either, but it makes a difference in the way this problem is addressed. I’ll invite the flak here, what evidence of a rape is there in that case except her word. What if the sailor says she consented? Surely you understand the difference between an ‘alleged rape’ and a ‘rape’. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/111 "2010-12-01T20:51:13Z")
Okay, I’m not anyone’s monkey and I’m not going to do this for every post. So, instead… > [@llcoolbj77](#): > > [ > > But you absolutely, and in no uncertain terms, characterized date rape as a lesser kind of rape, Cite? Cuz the quote you started with? Doesn’t qualify. “A lesser kind of rape” - I’ve made many many references to the fact that my point is that not all rape is equal. I was referencing an example of rape that is a “lesser kind”, which, in THIS example, counselor, happens to be the date rape that I personally experienced. That is not even close to characterizing all date rape as a lesser kind. It’s especially distant from it when considered next to everything else I’ve said that is exactly on point. CITE: Which means exact quote from my post, in context, without ignoring other posts that address the same issue. Interpretations are not cites. “Summaries” are not cites. Extrapolations of what you assume I am really saying are not cites. MY WORDS, UNEDITED, IN CONTEXT are cites. When you can show me those without then telling me what they REALLY mean (since, as in this case, they don’t mean what you absolutely sure they must), then I’ll bother. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/112 "2010-12-01T20:51:50Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Let me ask an honest question. Does it tend to be the same folks claiming to misunderstand her each time? I hav nevr heards anyone claim they misunderstood her. Many people are accused by her of misunderstanding though. AFICR, I have never been among them before. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to say I think the girl is being targeted but I think the girl is being targeted. I have only read a few of her threads, but I admit I seem to note some pile-on action happening with her. Because she is unable apparently to reassese her thoughtds and actually communicate with others instead of spewing what is in her head and expecting ti to be gospel truth to all. > [@](#): > > In this thread, it seems that she spoke quite plainly and she put in qualifiers and tried hard to make herself clear in the OP. I don’t get why folks are having so much trouble with her posts. sure, she tries hard. No one disputes that. It is the effectiveness of the communicating and the unwillingness to restate, and willingness to attack anyone who does not totally get what has been brewing in her head for 35 years after reading a few paragraphs. Basically, she needs to have a editor to tell her straight, most of us here, we can handle that role oursleves in the context of this board at least. > [@](#): > > Stoid tried to specify her own personal experience. She is saying it is a lesser rape in her opinion. She didn’t try to speak for ‘every victim of date rape’. She took pains to clarify that. I myself have not addressed her opinions in this thread, I only sought to clarify her assertions of fact in the OP. Has any clarification been forthcoming? No, instead she turned on me for even asking. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/113 "2010-12-01T20:53:33Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Stoid tried to specify her own personal experience. She is saying it is a lesser rape in her opinion. She didn’t try to speak for ‘every victim of date rape’. She took pains to clarify that. See? I’m not speaking some special language that only Nzinga and I understand. And since Nzinga understands me perfectly without the slightest bit of strain, I am certain it’s not me. Thank you, Nzinga. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/114 "2010-12-01T20:58:25Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Bull. What extreme are you on about? Stoids whole point was that each case needs to be taken individually, just without the blind rage that “sex” crimes seem to create. Are you even reading her posts? yes, she offered an opinion supported by supposed facts. I asked for clarification, because the reasoning was pretty bizarre. Not only bizarre, but shallow, in that her post did not even suggest a solution to the purported problem. But it did read to me like she was asking us to offer redemption or something for the way she behaved prior to her being raped. I am sorry she was raped, but I was not there, I don’t know her, and so if she want’s this stranger’s redemption, she is going to need to provide a more substantive explanation. So either way of reading it is weak to me. She is entitled to her opinion, but not entitled to expect that it makes sense to everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/115 "2010-12-01T21:00:47Z")
Stoid, why was your rape 'a lesser kind of rape? Becaue you didn’t care at the time? Because you weren’t upset afterwards? Because you were being slutty so you deserved it? Or what? If you could clarify what makes it ‘lesser’ that might help. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/116 "2010-12-01T21:01:14Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Let me ask an honest question. Does it tend to be the same folks claiming to misunderstand her each time? Yes. And you have demonstrated that you are entirely reasonable and clear in your communication, here and elsewhere, please do not buy into the idea that there’s something wrong with you, most especially if the threads you find that you are struggling with persistent misinterpretation in are threads in which you are putting forth controversial or unpopular positions, or positions which are close to being such. If you find people are constantly struggling to understand your posts about gardening, you might need to figure it out. But I’m assuming that’s not what’s been happening. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/117 "2010-12-01T21:01:25Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > So he can visit them and tell them that his hands are registered with the police as deadly weapons and that he’s got his eye on them (point to eye, point to him). That would be illegal, in California at least. An inappropriate use of the information on the registry, and precisely the sort of vigilantism that concerns people regarding the list’s existence in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/118 "2010-12-01T21:13:37Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I dunno, how does the law separate between the driver who is kinda drunk and only drives a few blocks and the driver who is shitfaced and mows down a few kids while driving backwards on the highway. > > READ THE GODDAMN THREAD. Precious. **Stoid** is gonna lecture us about what the law says. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/119 "2010-12-01T21:16:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Ah, “summarizing”. Kinda like “interpreting” or maybe “translating”. How about “paraphrasing”? It all sounds so much better than “making shit up to argue with.” > > Be way easier if you skip the summarizing, since you suck at it, and just work with the material that’s right here not needing any “summarizing”. When you do that, I might return to discussing it with you. But I’m not your monkey, to quote Jon Stewart. I thought you were going to ignore me? I note while you take umbrage at anything anyone says that doesn’t fit your world view, you never are actuality able to produce anything other than the most shallow of rhetorical devices to support yourself. I believe you that you are frustrated when people don’t get what you say. Perhaps a cause in communication is in order, after all, it is not ME that is complaining no one gets me. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/120 "2010-12-01T21:21:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Cite? Cuz the quote you started with? Doesn’t qualify. “A lesser kind of rape” - I’ve made many many references to the fact that my point is that not all rape is equal. I was referencing an example of rape that is a “lesser kind”, which, in THIS example, counselor, happens to be the date rape that I personally experienced. > > That is not even close to characterizing all date rape as a lesser kind. It’s especially distant from it when considered next to everything else I’ve said that is exactly on point. You are missing the point. The point is, that you seem to want to ascribe categories or shades of “rape-iness” where the rest of society does not. It is up to you to make yourself clear and to persuade others unless you just like hearing yourself type. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=7)