# Not pit-level annoyance, just a peeve about pedo and rape hysteria... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470 "2010-11-30T22:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/141 "2010-12-01T22:50:02Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > S **Tripolar** - there are a ton of examples of ridiculous crimes that people can get on the registry for. For example, in Virginia, if you french kiss a person, 12 or under, and you are 18 and older, that can, in the discretion of the judge, be a registerable offense. Well why the fuck would an 18 year old french kiss a 12 year old? Of course that’s an offense. Why the hell should it not be? That’s grotesque. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/142 "2010-12-01T22:52:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > There are lots of cases where the line between pushy guy/wishywashy girl and rape is very fine. Good Christ, I hope not. I’m sorry, but speaking as a horndog, this sickens me. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/143 "2010-12-01T22:52:22Z")
Alice, you have issues with me, and with my point of view. I get that. But I’m not going to make any effort to address your posts any further, because you are not posting them in any kind of good faith desire or intention of having any kind of reasonable dialogue about the topic, and you’re still taking your shots at me personally, which is what you seem to be primarily interested in doing. I was exhausted earlier and fed up to my back teeth with your entirely false and bizarre assertions that I was attacking anyone or lashing out at anyone, so I responded by asking you to -cite, but that was pointless. I’m actively responding to less openly hostile people who have questions about my point of view, I’m sure you can figure out anything you’re still confused about from that. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/144 "2010-12-01T22:53:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That doesn’t have anything to do with the damage it does to victims or how people should feel about it. Yes, the damage. One example of the damage a rape can do to a young woman appears to be that 35 or so years later, she will feel worse that people don’t understand how the rape meant noting to her, being a "lesser form " of rape, and how she was at least in part responsible for her own rape by putting herself in a place where rape was a possibility, but she will be far more upset that people don’t rush around and hug her for her heart felt self serving confession that she wants to extend to the whole world to make her feel batter. Is that the sort of damage to which you refer? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/145 "2010-12-01T22:53:44Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Good Christ, I hope not. > > I’m sorry, but speaking as a horndog, this sickens me. Welcome to the real world. Guys are assholes. Women are wussy. The end result is messy sexual encounters that might or might not be accurately labeled rape. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/146 "2010-12-01T22:56:23Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > My rape was lesser because I was a slutty girl who was having random sex with boatloads of people for lots of bad reasons. How does that make it a lesser rape? What does being “slutty” have to do with it? Are you actually saying that it’s a “lesser” crime to rape sluts? Does that go for all sluts or just you? > [@](#): > > This was one guy who really didn’t do it for me and after a certain point I knew I just didn’t want it, but that was so far into it already and he was just drunk and pushy and didn’t want to stop and I just found it simpler to get it over with than freak out, scream, get hysterical or struggle to physically throw him off my body, which appeared to be the options at the time. > > He wasn’t a criminal rapist, just a pushy shmuck and I was just a wuss and it wasn’t a big deal. And yippee for me. I think it would be pathetic, sad, and scary if here, 36 years later, I was traumatized about it. I think it would have been pretty ridiculous to have been traumatized about it at the time, given my general behavior at the time. It wouldn’t really have made any sense. Why go into trauma over something that was just a tad ickier than the sex I was having with all the other people? For the drama queen jollies? No thanks. For fuck’s sake, did he rape you or didn’t he? You seem to be trying to have it both ways here. Did you let him or did he he force you? You say “he wasn’t a criminal rapist.” If he raped you, then how was he not a criminal rapist? You’re saying that sometimes forcible rape isn’t criminal? What the fuck? Would you ever dare tell another woman that her rapist wasn’t a criminal, and that it was a “lesser rape” because she was a slut anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/147 "2010-12-01T22:59:21Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Yes, the damage. > > One example of the damage a rape can do to a young woman appears to be that 35 or so years later, she will feel worse that people don’t understand how the rape meant noting to her, being a "lesser form " of rape, and how she was at least in part responsible for her own rape by putting herself in a place where rape was a possibility, but she will be far more upset that people don’t rush around and hug her for her heart felt self serving confession that she wants to extend to the whole world to make her feel batter. > > Is that the sort of damage to which you refer? It’s possible. **Stoid** does seem to be bending over backwards to excuse her own rapist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/148 "2010-12-01T23:01:05Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Welcome to the real world. Guys are assholes. Women are wussy. The end result is messy sexual encounters that might or might not be accurately labeled rape. If the sex is not consensual, it is always accurately labled as rape. It’s not “messy.” It’s rape. It is not something that “guys” do. It’s something that rapists do. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/149 "2010-12-01T23:04:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > You kinda rock. 🙂 I used to rock. Now I’m getting old, so I just sway 🙂 > [@](#): > > And I take issue with using the word “deserving”, especially that “slutty” = “deserving”… I didn’t intend that. I understand what you are saying. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/150 "2010-12-01T23:12:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If the sex is not consensual, it is always accurately labled as rape. It’s not “messy.” It’s rape. It is not something that “guys” do. It’s something that rapists do. Shades of gray Dio, shades of gray. Whether or not sex is consensual is not always obvious. There is a spectrum (from 1 to 5, say): 1. She is resistant but is convinced to say OK though manipulative mind-games and/or intoxication. 2. She is socially resistant and says “no” but does not put up any physical resistance, and actively engages and initiates some of the activity. 3. She is socially resistant and says “no” but does not put up any physical resistance, and passively lets things happen to her. It is possible she gets off on this, or it is possible she is being traumatized. 4. She is both vocally and mildly physically resistant. 5. She is both vocally and fight-for-her-life physically resistant. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/151 "2010-12-01T23:28:17Z")
Number 3, many women won’t cop to. I will. I have never in my life been raped. But I have played that game where I acted like I didn’t want it, murmuring ‘no’ up to and after the point of intercourse. It was a turn on for me. Things get awfully grey once you face the fact that there are women and men who get off on that type of things. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/152 "2010-12-01T23:29:09Z")
- addendum: in 3) above, I should add that it is also possible that she doesn’t care enough about the physical act of sex itself to try to derail the situation. The act of stopping the “rapist” (I use quotes because he may stop if she put up more clear resistance) could be more traumatic than letting the physical act occur. I think this is why the “sluttiness” that the OP refers to is not completely irrelevant. If you are truly ambivalent about the sex, then how clearly you demonstrate that you don’t want to have sex will be much more strongly dependent on how aggressive the other party is. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/153 "2010-12-01T23:32:29Z")
Forgive the drive-by reply, but I’d just like to add that the fact that it’s even called “Statutory Rape” is completely absurd and if I were a survivor of actual rape I’d be enraged that the description was being compared to a 16 year old girl having a go with her college boyfriend. Why is it that we have nuance in the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder and a litany of Manslaughter charges but rape gets treated pretty much universally in society. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/154 "2010-12-01T23:34:54Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > **Tripolar** - there are a ton of examples of ridiculous crimes that people can get on the registry for. For example, in Virginia, if you french kiss a person, 12 or under, and you are 18 and older, that can, in the discretion of the judge, be a registerable offense. Seriously. I am not fucking kidding. It got pushed through the legislature after some grandpa made out with his granddaughter. (I just thought your example, of a 17 and 18 year old, which is not even a crime, let alone, registerable, was a bit far fetched). > [@TriPolar](#): > > I thought this was about a 25 year old guy and a 17 year old girl, and he thinks she’s 21, because that’s what her sister’s driver license said when she used it to get served at a bar. He can go to jail and be labeled a sex offender for life. Or about someone who decides they were raped after the fact. Or someone being investigated for taking naked pictures of their babies in a bathtub. > > But every discussion on this subject turns into accusations of apologizing for pedophiles, and advocating rape. The problem is about prosecution based on fear instead of reason. An innocent person labled as a sex offender adds another victim, and prevents no crimes. There is post 44. Real or not, your examples seem more far-fetched. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/155 "2010-12-01T23:38:39Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Number 3, many women won’t cop to. I will. I have never in my life been raped. But I have played that game where I acted like I didn’t want it, murmuring ‘no’ up to and after the point of intercourse. It was a turn on for me. Things get awfully grey once you face the fact that there are women and men who get off on that type of things. Not really. As you say, it happens all the time as fun and games. Relatively speaking, the disputes are rare, and we have courts to resolve the disputes as best as possible. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/156 "2010-12-02T13:56:18Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Welcome to the real world. Guys are assholes. Women are wussy. The end result is messy sexual encounters that might or might not be accurately labeled rape. You can have that world, mate. I’ll stay in mine. The women are hotter, the jailtime less plentiful. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/157 "2010-12-02T15:51:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There is post 44. Real or not, your examples seem more far-fetched. It seems silly to snipe at eachother about this. We are in agreement. There are a ton of ridiculous, overly hysterical laws. My only point was in the 6 years I have been a practicing criminal defense attorney, I have never seen anyone prosecuted given the circumstances you describe. Not even close. I don’t know where you live. But in VA, a state with notoriously harsh sex offender laws, it is not a crime (requiring registration), for a 25 year old to have sex with a 17 year old. It might be considered carnal knowlege, or contributing to the delinquency, both misdameanors. Neither would put someone on the sex offender registry. And **Dio** , I agree adults shouldn’t be french kissing 12 year olds. The reality is that law got pushed through by one case. But I don’t think that is worthy of placing someone on the sex offense registry for life… a registry that does not distinguish between people who violently rape others and a 17 year old who has a picture of his 16 year old girlfriend’s tits on his cell phone. Both would be considered violent sex offenders in VA. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/158 "2010-12-02T16:19:24Z")
I agree that registration should be confined only to egregious offenses - crimes involving violence, coersion, or other deprivations of the rights of others, as well as crimes involving genuine abuse or exploitation of minors (not purely statutory offenses between persons close in age). Victimless or non-violent offenders should not be branded. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/159 "2010-12-02T17:15:00Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Shes a child incapable of consent. That’s hard biology, not an opinion. Their brains have not finished developing yet. Unless you can prove that some 15 year olds magically develop their brains faster than others, then your fantasy that any of them can give meaningful consent is unfounded. Wait a minute - if what you say is true, then it follows that for the first five years in which I was sexually active (three of which I was working and living outside of the family home) I was repeatedly _raped._ hold me Either that, or you’re talking outof your ass again. Unless you mean that xx chromosomes carry some form of developmental retardation? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/160 "2010-12-02T17:30:56Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Wait a minute - if what you say is true, then it follows that for the first five years in which I was sexually active (three of which I was working and living outside of the family home) I was repeatedly _raped._ > > hold me > > Either that, or you’re talking outof your ass again. Unless you mean that xx chromosomes carry some form of developmental retardation? If you and your partner were outside the age of consent laws in the location where you were, then yeah, the younger one was raped under the law - that is what statutory rape is. It means that the younger person is not able to consent under the law, hence no consent in a legal sense was given. This is news to people on this board? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=9)