# Not pit-level annoyance, just a peeve about pedo and rape hysteria... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470 "2010-11-30T22:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/161 "2010-12-02T17:40:21Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Wait a minute - if what you say is true, then it follows that for the first five years in which I was sexually active (three of which I was working and living outside of the family home) I was repeatedly _raped._ Not necessarily. It means, at a minimum, you did not fully comprehend long term consequences yet, and would not have been capable of understanding the nature of any potential relationship with an adult. The brain doesn’t develop these cognitive abilities (anticipating/comprehending long term consequences) until an individual is into his or her 20’s. This is hard science, not opinion. If it’s two kids close in age, the potential for power differential and exploitation is much lower, but 15 year olds are not cognitive peers with 30 year olds. That’s a fact. If you had sex with an adult at that time it was at least exploitation, and possibly legal rape. Would you fuck a 15 year old girl now? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/162 "2010-12-02T17:51:53Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > If you and your partner were outside the age of consent laws in the location where you were, then yeah, the younger one was raped under the law. Age of consent at the time was 14 and there was not yet a “romeo & juliet” provision, so I only had one year of “rape,” but this is beside the point. **Dio** asserts that regardless of any legal construct, **biology** dictates that it is impossible for a fifteen-year-old to have any sort of autonomy. This is beyond ridiculous. We live in a culture where maturity has been artificially deferred to the point that it’s fairly common to meet thirty-year-old children. Most adults today would not be able to correctly complete exercises in formal logic in 18th century text books intended for twelve-year-olds. Have we significantly devolved in a single century? It’s one thing to infantalize people. It’s quite another to claim that it’s \*biologically normal \*for fifteen-year-olds to be intellectually and emotionally stunted. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/163 "2010-12-02T18:02:22Z")
Who said they were “stunted?” They just aren’t done maturing yet. That’s a biological fact, not an insult. Cognitive development is not complete until the mid 20’s, and significant changes are still occuring [after 18 years of age](http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/02/06.html). You didn’t answer my question. Would you fuck a 15 year old now? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/164 "2010-12-02T18:21:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not necessarily. It means, at a minimum, you did not fully comprehend long term consequences yet, and would not have been capable of understanding the nature of any potential relationship with an adult. The brain doesn’t develop these cognitive abilities (anticipating/comprehending long term consequences) until an individual is into his or her 20’s. This is hard science, not opinion. Hooey. What young relationship is focussed on the long-term? Day-to-day responsibilities were met, and I was prepared for any consequences. I was 17 when I met a twenty-nine-year-old with whom I had relationship that lasted years and turned into a comfortable friendship. This was legal, and for damned sure I knew my own mind. How is that I could be responsible enough to earn my own way in the world but somehow incapable of making decisions about who I wanted to have sex with? > [@](#): > > Would you fuck a 15 year old girl now? If not, why not? Hell, no. For one thing, I’m forty and think that the chances of finding a fifteen-year-old that would hold my attention. This is hardly surprising, since I wasn’t interested in fifteen-year-olds when I was fifteen. In the realm of the absurdly hypothetical, I wouldn’t rule it out strictly on the age differential. If I met someone with whom I had enough in common for their to be a mutual casual interest and if it weren’t a criminal offense, why not? Practically, though - of course not. That doesn’t mean that I think a lynch mob is the only right and proper response to every relationship between a fifteen-year-old and a twenty-year-old. There ought to be some room for psychological reality, or people will be hurt. Note also that I don’t think declaring open season on anyone who’s reached menarche or has swimmers in their prostate fluid would be to the greater good. Just that shrill hysteria doesn’t serve anyone’s interests. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/165 "2010-12-02T18:36:31Z")
The psychologocal reality is that a 15 year old does not have the same cognitive development as an adult, and cannot be cognitive peers with one. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/166 "2010-12-02T18:52:03Z")
And bumblebees can’t fly. I told myself that I wasn’t going to play Xerxes to your sea of impenetrable opinion anymore. We should just declare threads over once you notice them. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/167 "2010-12-02T18:53:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Wait a minute - if what you say is true, then it follows that for the first five years in which I was sexually active (three of which I was working and living outside of the family home) I was repeatedly _raped._ > > hold me Good snorty laugh out this one. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/168 "2010-12-02T18:55:19Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > And bumblebees can’t fly. > > I told myself that I wasn’t going to play Xerxes to your sea of impenetrable opinion anymore. It’s not an opinion. Did you ignore my cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/169 "2010-12-02T18:56:19Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Good snorty laugh out this one. Is it sometimes ok for 30 year olds to fuck 15 year olds, **Stoid**? Is it funny to call that exploitive? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/170 "2010-12-02T18:57:52Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > It seems silly to snipe at eachother about this. We are in agreement. There are a ton of ridiculous, overly hysterical laws. My only point was in the 6 years I have been a practicing criminal defense attorney, I have never seen anyone prosecuted given the circumstances you describe. Not even close. Does anyone know what Frank Sinatra’s bust for “seduction” was about? That’s what it says on that famous mug shot of his I have on my wall. (DAMN he was cute then…) > [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > I told myself that I wasn’t going to play Xerxes to your sea of impenetrable opinion anymore. > > We should just declare threads over once you notice them. Can’t do that they would die instantly. Just do as I do: acknowledge that Dio has a very strong opinion, you understand what it is, and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/171 "2010-12-02T18:58:10Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > And bumblebees can’t fly. > > I told myself that I wasn’t going to play Xerxes to your sea of impenetrable opinion anymore. > > We should just declare threads over once you notice them. We need a ‘godwin’ like word for this. If Dio disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean the thread is over or that it’s the Dio show. If a poster mentions ‘Dio Show’ or ‘Thread over because of Dio’ then he automatically loses the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/172 "2010-12-02T19:18:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > We need a ‘godwin’ like word for this. If Dio disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean the thread is over or that it’s the Dio show. If a poster mentions ‘Dio Show’ or ‘Thread over because of Dio’ then he automatically loses the argument. C’mon… no need to be rude and dismissive. Seriously. We all know, including Dio, that he (generally) has astonishingly fixed and extreme opinions and that he will repeatedly remind everyone exactly what they are periodically. He’s absolutely entitled. And I think he’s entitled to be acknowledged. It’s just the most polite compromise, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/173 "2010-12-02T19:19:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Is it sometimes ok for 30 year olds to fuck 15 year olds, **Stoid**? Is it funny to call that exploitive? Yes, it is sometimes ok. (And I am 100% clear on the fact that you 100% disagree.) No, not funny to call it exploitive, Larry’s aside was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/174 "2010-12-02T19:20:53Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > If a poster mentions ‘Dio Show’ or ‘Thread over because of Dio’ then he automatically loses the argument. Entering into an argument with **Dio** is a losing situation. There’s no bottom to it, because he can;t debate rationally. The “cites” he presents for his opinions never say what they think he says, and you can’t reason him out of his idee fixee’s. It’s absurd. “I went to Disneyland when I was eight.” "Impossible, [nobody goes to Disneyland](http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/zeno_tort/index.asp). " “No, really, I did.” “Didn’t you read my cite?” If I were foolish enough to pretend that **Dio** article about cerebral development was worth considering in an argument about whether or not young people can make rational decisions about personal relationships, I might point out that most of what we know about the brain suggests he has [confused cause and effect](http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/short/26/23/6314). But then, I would be arguing with **Diogenes** , and I’m not going to do that any more. If I find myself with the desire to engage him in a debate again I will just save time and throw myself against a brick wall until I stop moving. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/175 "2010-12-02T19:35:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > [nobody goes to Disneyland](http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/zeno_tort/index.asp). Owwwww, my head… ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/176 "2010-12-02T19:43:44Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > …If I find myself with the desire to engage him in a debate again I will just save time and throw myself against a brick wall until I stop moving. Ha. Ok. Point taken. I have felt your pain. I just don’t want us to start hijacking threads via ‘Dio show by proxy’. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/177 "2010-12-02T20:17:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Does anyone know what Frank Sinatra’s bust for “seduction” was about? That’s what it says on that famous mug shot of his I have on my wall. (DAMN he was cute then). Your poster of Frank Sinatra mentions not sniping at eachother because we are in complete agreement??? Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/178 "2010-12-02T20:34:13Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Yes, it is sometimes ok. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/179 "2010-12-02T20:35:33Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > your poster of frank sinatra mentions not sniping at eachother because we are in complete agreement??? Weird. yes! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470/180 "2010-12-02T20:36:09Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Entering into an argument with **Dio** is a losing situation. There’s no bottom to it, because he can;t debate rationally. The “cites” he presents for his opinions never say what they think he says, and you can’t reason him out of his idee fixee’s. > > It’s absurd. “I went to Disneyland when I was eight.” "Impossible, [nobody goes to Disneyland](http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/zeno_tort/index.asp). " “No, really, I did.” “Didn’t you read my cite?” > > If I were foolish enough to pretend that **Dio** article about cerebral development was worth considering in an argument about whether or not young people can make rational decisions about personal relationships, I might point out that most of what we know about the brain suggests he has [confused cause and effect](http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/short/26/23/6314). But then, I would be arguing with **Diogenes** , and I’m not going to do that any more. If I find myself with the desire to engage him in a debate again I will just save time and throw myself against a brick wall until I stop moving. Basically this is just a long winded, hand waving way to admit you have no rebuttal to the hard science about brain development. I said nothing about cause or effect, by the way. I said that 30 year olds and 15 year olds are not cognitive peers. That is a hard fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-pit-level-annoyance-just-a-peeve-about-pedo-and-rape-hysteria/562470.md?page=10)