# "Not So Awesome" - the Channel Awesome tell-all **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 5, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865 "2018-04-05T12:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/1 "2018-04-05T12:29:28Z")
So, over the last month or so, a number of major contributors to Channel Awesome (formerly That Guy With the Glasses), including Linkara and Todd in the Shadows, have publicly quit the site. This follows on the heels of another mass departure several years ago of a number of contributors, including some of the very first people to join the site. In the weeks since this last departure, a _lot_ of dirty laundry about CA management’s interaction with their talent has been aired on social media. Alison Pregler (Obscurus Lupa) has gone to great effort to compile the horror stories that she and other contributors to the site have been put through over the years, which has now been compiled in [this very lengthy Google Doc.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZFkR__B3Mk9EYQglvislMUx9HWvWhOaBP820UBa4dA/preview) It’s quite a read, but the main points are this; the management of CA was woefully unable to manage the company, lacked the ability to produce a film up to and including not realizing that their performers needed _food and water_ on the set; refused to address issues of sexual harassment, treated female producers unfairly and were dismissive of trolls attacking them; exploited their performers and essentially expected them to work for free and antagonized them when they attempted to monetize their videos; neglected and/or outright antagonized performers who weren’t in their top tier; broke their own stated rules to summarily drop performers for arbitrary reasons; and was generally incapable of operating a business in a professional manner. I, as I imagine many people of my age bracket are, was a big fan of Nostalgia Critic when he first broke out in 2008-ish, and I subsequently became a fan of a great number of the reviewers that joined the label in the following years. There’s only a handful I still follow now, most of whom have parted ways with CA and have contributed to the doc above, and it pains me to know that so many bits of media I’ve enjoyed over the years were tinged with all the awfulness now alleged. Not sure I really have a thesis to end this OP on - just read this doc if you’ve followed CA at all over the past decade. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/2 "2018-04-05T12:50:10Z")
I’ll definitely be reading. I saw Benzaie, who has switched to exclusive French videos, tweet the other day about his experiences, which appear to be included in this document. It sounds pretty bad. Does anyone have any thing bad to say about Doug Walker? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/3 "2018-04-05T14:56:55Z")
Obviously the allegations of sexual harassment are one thing. But the unprofessionalism, the mismanagement, the personal vendettas, that all sounds like a company that grew too big too fast and run by people who didn’t know what they were doing leading young people who didn’t know better. Which is sadly not that unusual, especially in companies that ‘specialize’ in supporting online video content producers. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/4 "2018-04-05T17:15:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Obviously the allegations of sexual harassment are one thing. But the unprofessionalism, the mismanagement, the personal vendettas, that all sounds like a company that grew too big too fast and run by people who didn’t know what they were doing leading young people who didn’t know better. Which is sadly not that unusual, especially in companies that ‘specialize’ in supporting online video content producers. As much the growth as the unwillingness of young ‘manager’ types to realize that managing a company is not going to be all sweetness and love. They handled personality conflicts all wrong - I suspect that Doug just couldn’t handle the fact that the people working for him would have issues with the manager he deals with everyday and is probably his friend. I attribute a lot of the remainder (Mostly the ‘To Boldly Flee’ issues) to the Walker brothers having a bit of Dunnigan-Kruger syndrome with regards to movie-making. I doubt it matters much in the long run. Once Patreon became the main income source for these producers, CA was already in a spiral. I was actually surprised that Todd in the Shadows was still _with_ CA, I thought he and others in his subgroup - which included Lindsay Ellis (the former Nostalgia Chick) and a few others. Patreon is making them a lot more money than Youtube ads or their contract with that older defunct video company ever did. CA was exposure for these producers and once it was less about ad numbers and more about Patreon patrons CA was just no longer needed. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/5 "2018-04-05T17:26:22Z")
I can’t remember if it’s in the doc or the twitter threads that preceded it but a couple of the content producers commented that CA derided patreon as e-begging and resisted attempts by content creators to use it. And I’m glad the creators have gone for Patreon. Since Lindsay Ellis started a patreon she has done some absolutely fabulous videos. I’m on tenterhooks waiting for the next one on the Hobbit movies! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/6 "2018-04-05T17:53:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I can’t remember if it’s in the doc or the twitter threads that preceded it but a couple of the content producers commented that CA derided patreon as e-begging and resisted attempts by content creators to use it. Its certainly mentioned in the Google Doc file of compiled complaints. The ‘e-begging’ now sounds more like an excuse to cover that with Patreon the need for CA’s exposure was diminished. > [@](#): > > And I’m glad the creators have gone for Patreon. Since Lindsay Ellis started a patreon she has done some absolutely fabulous videos. I’m on tenterhooks waiting for the next one on the Hobbit movies! Not to mention that the content producers can actually earn a living wage for their work. I recall after becoming a Patreon for Todd in the Shadows soon after he was able to start it. Not very long after that he posted a message to the effect of “My God! I can actually buy SHOES! Thank you Patrons!”. Speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/7 "2018-04-05T17:56:01Z")
Is it true that Doug does not own the Nostalgia Critic? Someone in the doc. says that Mike Michaud owns the intellectual property of NC. How could Doug have ever gotten himself into a situation where he and his brother are not the owners of NC? I hope that isn’t true. Doug could start his own web site and bring people back if he ran it properly. And yes, a lot of the problems listed aren’t as serious as harassment. They are just incompetence due to inexperience. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/8 "2018-04-05T18:39:47Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is it true that Doug does not own the Nostalgia Critic? Someone in the doc. says that Mike Michaud owns the intellectual property of NC. > > How could Doug have ever gotten himself into a situation where he and his brother are not the owners of NC? I could see two reasons. One was back when Doug decided to “Retire” the Nostalgia Critic character he might have given up the rights for the character so down the line the site could recast the character in some way, and then obviously when he came back from “retirement” he was forced to now be the character despite him no longer owning it. Two he might have had to put the character up as “collateral” to the company itself to make it more attractive to investors. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/9 "2018-04-06T18:31:00Z")
I read through a lot of it, but not everything. Honestly, it sounds like it was just a badly managed company. One run by people who don’t know how to run a company. Lots of feelings hurt. Lots of incompetence. I think a lot of people work for companies like this. :shrugs: Many companies are like this. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/10 "2018-04-06T21:24:53Z")
A couple years back I learned that Channel Awesome was started a couple blocks from me, and its studio was behind the Toys R Us. One daughter said, “I know they’re around here because I see [name redacted] at furry bowling all the time.” I thought another daughter would like helping them out, but we never went through with it. All for the best, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/11 "2018-04-06T22:04:00Z")
I’m kind of shocked at the budget and importance that was placed on the “movies” and the fact that they needed a full studio to produce these videos. They never seemed all that much beyond videos and a full fledged pilot my friends and I would shoot on our own. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/12 "2018-04-06T22:09:40Z")
I meant to put “studio” in quotes. But if you have ambitions and more than a few employees that bungalow on Grace Street where people also live isn’t going to be enough. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/13 "2018-04-07T03:45:07Z")
PJust an aside: it’s ridiculous that something like Google Docs still can’t handle browser text scaling. People are using it as an office replacement, but text won’t actually fit in the page on mobile or if you have a zoom level on your browser. On mobile, at least, there’s no clear download button, so i can’t even read it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/14 "2018-04-08T06:27:36Z")
Earlier today, Nash (Radio Dead Air/WTFIWWY) announced his departure from CA as well. I think that leaves Cinema Snob and Angry Joe as the only “golden age” producers still on the site. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/15 "2018-04-09T21:50:44Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I meant to put “studio” in quotes. But if you have ambitions and more than a few employees that bungalow on Grace Street where people also live isn’t going to be enough. But even that—I’m still shocked by it. The majority of these videos are people in a room talking at a camera…footage spliced in. There’s youtubers putting out the same quality of videos as CA where is abundantly clear they are filming in their own bedrooms with maybe a sheet or green screen behind them. How did they need a separate studio for CA–it seems most of the content creators were not located in the area anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/16 "2018-04-12T11:08:04Z")
Channel Awesome issued [a response](http://channelawesome.com/our-response/) to the Google Doc last night. To call it done-deaf would be generous. Honestly, it’s only a degree away from “FAKE NEWS, all of these people are liars but especially the women”. Angry Joe has now quit the site as well. Cinema Snob is the only “classic” performer who hasn’t quit at this point (and even then possibly only because he’s been incommunicado in general the last few days), and the drop-downs on their site now lists a grand total of _nine_ producers, from the 40+ they had a few months ago. I feel as if, in decades to come, the saga of Channel Awesome could become a cautionary tale of how to _not_ run a business in an emerging marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/17 "2018-04-13T00:46:32Z")
The internet is also abuzz with the news that the " sexual predator" described by one of the Jane Does was Justin Carmichael, known as JewWario. Claims are he assaulted some girls, I don’t know I understand the details. He killed himself in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/18 "2018-04-14T07:33:17Z")
CA shut down their forums and store today, and the only contributor left besides Doug & company is Guru Larry, who appears content to stay just to troll the company. I don’t think the site is going to be up much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/19 "2018-04-14T20:15:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Angry Joe has now quit the site as well. Cinema Snob is the only “classic” performer who hasn’t quit at this point (and even then possibly only because he’s been incommunicado in general the last few days) > [@Smapti](#): > > CA shut down their forums and store today, and the only contributor left besides Doug & company is Guru Larry, who appears content to stay just to troll the company. > > I don’t think the site is going to be up much longer. Having heard them on podcasts outside of CA it seems both Cinema Snob and Guru Larry openly think CA is extremely poorly run and doesn’t have any legs left but just continue with it because it still gives them a tiny bit more of exposure. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865/20 "2018-04-14T21:29:49Z")
Brad is still there, too, isn’t he? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-awesome-the-channel-awesome-tell-all/811865.md?page=2)