# Not so inevitable movie plots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468 "2011-05-19T16:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/21 "2011-05-19T19:18:58Z")
It seems that with such narrow specifications, I don’t know why there would be such movies. Usually, “What if?” scenarios deal with the aftermath, creating a whole new history. Who would want to see “Valkyrie” that is exactly the same but it ends with Hitler dying? Such a movie would be totally trashed by critics. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/22 "2011-05-19T19:25:04Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It seems that with such narrow specifications, I don’t know why there would be such movies. Usually, “What if?” scenarios deal with the aftermath, creating a whole new history. Who would want to see “Valkyrie” that is exactly the same but it ends with Hitler dying? Such a movie would be totally trashed by critics. I remember the reviews at the time, and _The Final Countdown_ didn’t get trashed because they screwed with history-it got trashed because, after a large buildup, they copped out and _didn’t_ change history. Many fiction books have changed history without getting ripped for it, so why haven’t movies made that jump? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/23 "2011-05-19T19:42:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > In books, Jasper fforde’s **The Eyre Affairs** changes the ending to **Jane Eyre** – to what it is now. Has that been made into a movie? The whole Thursday Next series is set in an alternate universe where Britain was fighting the Crimean War until just recently, and where the airplane was never invented in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/24 "2011-05-19T21:58:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Has that been made into a movie? The whole Thursday Next series is set in an alternate universe where Britain was fighting the Crimean War until just recently, and where the airplane was never invented in any case. Nope, never filmed. Btw, it does have airplanes, Acheron Hades has one at one point, but zeppelins are used for transport. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/25 "2011-05-19T22:34:09Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Well, there was [The Legend of the Titanic](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1623780/), an animated film I only learned about yesterday. > > The Titanic is struck by an iceberg, but the iceberg was deliberately placed in the ship’s way by a group of thuggish sharks with arms who convinced a giant octopus with a dog’s face to throw it in the ship’s path. There were enough lifeboats on the ship for everyone, but some people inexplicably remained on board, and the giant octopus atoned for his mistake by holding the ship together long enough for everyone to leave the ship via Jesus-whales. The dog octopus sank with the ship, but not before heroically saving the captain who tried to go down with his ship. Even though the dogtopus was killed when the ship crushed him against the sea floor, he inexplicably reappeared completely hale and hearty to join in the celebrations back at port where every single person on board the Titanic had survived. > > I wish to every god that might ever have existed that I was making this up. From the IMDB’s goofs section on this movie: > [@](#): > > Revealing mistakes: Smoke is coming from the fourth smoke stack when it’s actually a dummy used for ventilation for the ship’s kitchen. I imagine that mistake completely destroyed the audience’s ability to suspend their disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/26 "2011-05-19T22:35:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your pedanticism aside, I am reasonably confident that other posters get the gist of what I am looking for here. Honestly, if _Inglorious Basterds_ doesn’t make the cut, then I really have no idea what you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/27 "2011-05-19T23:08:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > From the IMDB’s goofs section on this movie: > > > [@](#): > > > > Revealing mistakes: Smoke is coming from the fourth smoke stack when it’s actually a dummy used for ventilation for the ship’s kitchen. > > I imagine that mistake completely destroyed the audience’s ability to suspend their disbelief. Even Better > [@](#): > > The mice orchestra are playing Jazz which didn’t become mainstream music outside of New Orleans until the 1920s. Stupid mice! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/28 "2011-05-19T23:16:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Honestly, if _Inglorious Basterds_ doesn’t make the cut, then I really have no idea what you’re looking for. Yeah. In Inglorious Basterds, they manage to kill Hitler. That didn’t really happen. So from the OP, common-sense notion that “The plot against Hitler will fail” was defied. If we’re looking at time travel/alternate history, then there are whole bunch of instances, more than you can count. If we’re talking about that, then it’s gonna be a long list. If we’re not, it’s gonna be a much shorter but more interesting list. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/29 "2011-05-20T01:06:32Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Well, there was [The Legend of the Titanic](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1623780/), an animated film I only learned about yesterday. I watch Nostalgia Critic too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/30 "2011-05-20T01:09:36Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I watch Nostalgia Critic too. 🙂 Even at a half-hour with ongoing snark it was painful. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/31 "2011-05-20T01:28:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Honestly, if _Inglorious Basterds_ doesn’t make the cut, then I really have no idea what you’re looking for. I presume the OP means a historical drama that isn’t defused by our knowledge of what actually occured. Sort of like how it used to be that you knew the main character of a TV series couldn’t really be in danger of dying, because there’d be no show if he/she did- until the first time someone had the stones to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/32 "2011-07-12T15:54:49Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > There was a TV-movie, that was based on a novel of the same name, called _Fatherland_, which was set in a post WWII Germany where Germany won the war. > > I read the book, but didn’t see the movie, and this was maybe 15 or 20 years ago, so I can’t remember much of the plot. It’s basically a detective / murder-mystery story with the protagonist being an officer in the German army. He’s basically presented as a good guy all around who by the end of the novel/movie discovers that the holocaust – which was officially covered up somehow by the government – really did happen… Nitpick: The protagonist is an SS and not an army (Wehrmacht) officer. And the book is far, _far_ better than the movie, IMHO: [Fatherland (novel) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/33 "2011-07-12T17:04:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Honestly, if _Inglorious Basterds_ doesn’t make the cut, then I really have no idea what you’re looking for. Late apologies-For some reason I never made it back to this thread. _Inglorious Basterds_ certainly makes the cut for the Hitler assassination. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/34 "2011-07-12T17:07:44Z")
In an epiosde of Quantum Leap, Sam leaps into the body of Lee Harvey Oswald. When he fires the shots, he then leaps into the body of a Secret Service agent. He fails to save the President, but Sam tells him that the first time, Jackie Kennedy was killed too, and he succeeded in his mission to save her. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/35 "2011-07-12T17:12:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > In an epiosde of Quantum Leap, Sam leaps into the body of Lee Harvey Oswald. When he fires the shots, he then leaps into the body of a Secret Service agent. He fails to save the President, but Sam tells him that the first time, Jackie Kennedy was killed too, and he succeeded in his mission to save her. Where is the historical inaccuracy in that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/36 "2011-07-12T17:13:52Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > In an epiosde of Quantum Leap, Sam leaps into the body of Lee Harvey Oswald. When he fires the shots, he then leaps into the body of a Secret Service agent. He fails to save the President, but Sam tells him that the first time, Jackie Kennedy was killed too, and he succeeded in his mission to save her. Sort of the opposite of what I’m looking for, but interesting in that Cannell(spelling?) gave interviews at the time when some called him an apologist for the official version. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/37 "2011-07-12T21:56:47Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Nitpick: The protagonist is an SS and not an army (Wehrmacht) officer. And the book is far, _far_ better than the movie, IMHO: [Fatherland (novel) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)) Further nitpick: Actually the protagonist was a Berlin detective (ex war U Boat officer). And yes, the book was very good. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/38 "2011-07-13T01:02:58Z")
March was an officer of the Kripo or _Kriminalpolizei_, assigned to Berlin. He was not an officer of the Berlin city police department, if that’s what you mean. At the time, the Kripo was under SS jurisdiction. The book (and the movie) correctly have him in the black uniform of the SS; here’s Rutger Hauer in the role: [http://www.thefancarpet.com/uploaded\_assets/images/gallery/3805/Fatherland\_35717\_Medium.jpg](http://www.thefancarpet.com/uploaded_assets/images/gallery/3805/Fatherland_35717_Medium.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/39 "2011-07-13T01:16:20Z")
Another example for the OP: in Ward Moore’s 1953 novel _Bring the Jubilee_, a time-traveling historian inadvertently, and to his horror, messes with the Battle of Gettysburg as it unfolds. Ironically, in his original timeline, the Confederacy won the battle and then the Civil War, eventually becoming dominant throughout almost the entire Western Hemisphere, with the much-smaller U.S. living in its shadow. The historian starts a chain of events which results in the Confederacy losing the battle, in exactly the way it did in our own timeline. Pretty cool twist, I always thought. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468/40 "2011-07-13T01:38:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Another example for the OP: in Ward Moore’s 1953 novel _Bring the Jubilee_, a time-traveling historian inadvertently, and to his horror, messes with the Battle of Gettysburg as it unfolds. > > Ironically, in his original timeline, the Confederacy won the battle and then the Civil War, eventually becoming dominant throughout almost the entire Western Hemisphere, with the much-smaller U.S. living in its shadow. The historian starts a chain of events which results in the Confederacy losing the battle, in exactly the way it did in our own timeline. Pretty cool twist, I always thought. Yet another example of the _opposite_ of what the OP is asking for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-inevitable-movie-plots/582468.md?page=3)