# Not so slippry a slope: Bush has always been the one to blame for our current economic crisis. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 26, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401 "2011-07-26T17:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/41 "2011-07-26T21:05:24Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > My biggest criticism of Bush and of congressional Republicans over the years was their failure to get spending under control or reform entitlements. Given that, why should I let the Democrats off the hook for doing just as bad or worse in that area? At least they didn’t make the problem substantially worse like Bush did with Medicare Part D? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/42 "2011-07-26T21:43:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Who is blaming them for all the evils in the world? This thread is about the deficit that was clearly a construction of Bush. That is a childish non response. My comment was about all the current threads (and many historical ones) bemoaning republican evils. And they are tiring. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/43 "2011-07-26T21:49:24Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Frankly, I think you are picking nits. But I’m paying attention. What do you think the difference actually looks like? Can you demonstrate a reduction in Bush policies’ impact on the deficit by more than 4.4%? Because as it stands, the chart looks pretty compelling even taking for granted the reduced TARP costs. > > The point is certain factions would very much like to place all the blame for the current economy at Obama’s feet and this chart demonstrates why that is quite wrong. I invite you to prove the chart wrong. I match your unqualified faith in charts from biased sources: > **[Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama's Deficits in Pictures](https://www.dailysignal.com/2010/02/05/past-deficits-vs-obamas-deficits-in-pictures/)** > > UPDATE: This graph is now over one year old. For up to date information see this post: The Truth about Obama’s Budget Deficits, in Pictures UPDATE:... Read More I invite you to prove it wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/44 "2011-07-26T21:55:41Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I match your unqualified faith in charts from biased sources: > > [Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama's Deficits in Pictures](http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/05/past-deficits-vs-obamas-deficits-in-pictures/) > > I invite you to prove it wrong! I actually think that chart is absolutely correct for what it shows - CBO estimates of future deficits. Of course, what it doesn’t show (which the chart in the OP does), is what is _driving_ those estimates. If you remove, for example, the Bush tax cuts, the deficits drop quite a bit - I believe around 30%. Any other policy changes (CPI change to SS, tax reform, etc) would also change those projections. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/45 "2011-07-26T22:03:29Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Der will be here in a minute confirming that Bush is indeed Lucifer. Nonsense. "The Prince of Darkness is a **gentleman."** – Edgar, _King Lear_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/46 "2011-07-26T22:04:36Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > My biggest criticism of Bush and of congressional Republicans over the years was their failure to get spending under control or reform entitlements. Given that, why should I let the Democrats off the hook for doing just as bad or worse in that area? Because your priorities were misplaced in the first place. [Read this.](http://www.salon.com/news/debt_ceiling/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/07/19/lind_pea_party) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/47 "2011-07-26T22:25:15Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I actually think that chart is absolutely correct for what it shows - CBO estimates of future deficits. > > Of course, what it doesn’t show (which the chart in the OP does), is what is _driving_ those estimates. If you remove, for example, the Bush tax cuts, the deficits drop quite a bit - I believe around 30%. Any other policy changes (CPI change to SS, tax reform, etc) would also change those projections. I agree. That figure is not terribly inconsistent with [this one](http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/75128/the-stigmatization-bush-blaming), which breaks out the drivers of the deficits. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/48 "2011-07-26T23:07:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Hold on a second – go back to that chart shown in the OP. > > The wars were both started under Republican majorities (I’m not criticizing, it’s just a fact). The tax cuts were done under Republican majorities with barely any Democratic support. The non-defense discretionary spending is clearly attributable on a 3/4th basis to Republican controlled Congresses. The Medicare bill was enacted in a Republican Congress, but with substantial Democratic support. TARP and the bailouts were done in Democratic Congresses with substantial Republican support. > > The way I see it, somewhere around 2/3rd of the Bush “new costs” bar graph is directly attributable to Republican congressional support. Hold on a second. The Democrats controlled the Senate until the 2004 elections. Both wars and the Bush tax cuts happened with the Dems in control of the Senate. It seems odd to me how many people on this MB can’t seem to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/49 "2011-07-26T23:10:36Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Okay, but two years of Obama’s numbers PLUS six years of projections is still less than all of Bush’s, so to say Obama RIGHT NOW is equally guilty as Bush for our debt is plum wrong. But I don’t say that. What were Bush’s numbers two years into his presidency, plus six years of projections? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/50 "2011-07-26T23:26:58Z")
An interesting question **Bricker** - relevant data is here: [http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4032&type=0&sequence=2](http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4032&type=0&sequence=2). Note that the initial estimates in that report assume the 2001 tax cuts expire (they didn’t) and that the Iraq & Afghanistan wars were not included at all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/51 "2011-07-26T23:27:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Democrats controlled the Senate until the 2004 elections. Both wars and the Bush tax cuts happened with the Dems in control of the Senate. It seems odd to me how many people on this MB can’t seem to remember that. See, **Der Trihs** , it isn’t only the right wing who uses false equivalence as a first resort. The proudly above it all do, too. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/52 "2011-07-26T23:43:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Democrats controlled the Senate until the 2004 elections. Both wars and the Bush tax cuts happened with the Dems in control of the Senate. It seems odd to me how many people on this MB can’t seem to remember that. You might recall that there was no filibuster available on either tax cut bill as they were both “jammed through” under reconciliation. You may also recall that the second vote was 51-50 with Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. I believe the first got around 10 Democratic votes, short of the required number to overcome a filibuster (had one been available). As to the wars (Iraq in particular) that ground has been well-trod, and needn’t be tread again today. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/53 "2011-07-26T23:50:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hold on a second. > > The Democrats controlled the Senate until the 2004 elections. Both wars and the Bush tax cuts happened with the Dems in control of the Senate. It seems odd to me how many people on this MB can’t seem to remember that. Oops. 2002. But the wars and tax cuts were with Dems in control of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/54 "2011-07-26T23:51:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hold on a second. > > The Democrats controlled the Senate until the 2004 elections. Both wars and the Bush tax cuts happened with the Dems in control of the Senate. It seems odd to me how many people on this MB can’t seem to remember that. The Democrats have devolved themselves, abased themselves, into a _menshevik_, three legged Blue dead dog that won’t hunt, a “business friendly”, “centrist” Clintonista monstrosity, prostituting a proud tradition for corporate campaign donations. It worked, and now a considerable portion of the Democratic Party is nothing more than Republican Lite. As for the debacles you mention, I hasten to point out that we radical lefties were right on those, three for three. often in the face of scorn and derision. It seems odd to me how many people on this MB can’t seem to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/55 "2011-07-26T23:57:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > See, **Der Trihs** , it isn’t only the right wing who uses false equivalence as a first resort. The proudly above it all do, too. Just stating facts. Or would you prefer that we don’t correct posters who incorrectly assign actions to Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/56 "2011-07-26T23:58:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hold on a second. > > The Democrats controlled the Senate until the 2004 elections. Both wars and the Bush tax cuts happened with the Dems in control of the Senate. It wasn’t their idea, the Democrats just caved in as they always cave in. They weren’t in control; they aren’t ever in control. They aren’t capable of it. They never rise above the status of “speed bump for the Republicans” regardless of how many are in office at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/57 "2011-07-27T00:05:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It wasn’t their idea, the Democrats just caved in as they always cave in. They weren’t in control; they aren’t ever in control. They aren’t capable of it. They never rise above the status of “speed bump for the Republicans” regardless of how many are in office at the moment. Take that up with **Ravenman**. He did the calcs based on who controlled what. I just corrected a mistake he made. If he wants to come in and move his goalposts, that’s up to him. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/58 "2011-07-27T00:47:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But I don’t say that. What were Bush’s numbers two years into his presidency, plus six years of projections? Who cares? The point is that most of the debt was racked up by Bush. Pubs argue that Obama/Dems are as responsible for this-- in raw numbers, not in comparible years in office. The graph linked to in this thread show otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/59 "2011-07-27T00:49:52Z")
Doesn’t Congress control the purse strings?? I could have sworn I saw that somewhere in that Constitution thingy… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401/60 "2011-07-27T01:16:30Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > In an effort to break my very mundane Tuesday, I began reading further into the US debt-ceiling debacle; I really want to understand it much more than I currently do. To me - an NPR fiend - I can listen to both sides on the radio, stay in tune with who is saying what, but I am admittedly not as well informed on the causes of our economic crisis as I’d like to be. Here on the SDMB I’ve noticed a lot of GOPers placing blame squarely on Obama’s shoulders for the current economic crisis - I’ve also noticed [not hard not to] the fox news folks blaming Obama simply for taking office and “screwing everything up”. > > Today, I was reading the Washington Post and came cross this [graph](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/obamas-and-bushs-effect-on-the-deficit-in-one-graph/2011/07/25/gIQAELOrYI_blog.html). It depicts Obama and Bush’s effect on our deficit. > > Damn! Hit post before I wanted to! > > What’s the debate? I want to talk about why so many blame Obama for the current crisis when it so clearly began with Bush. I’d also like to know what others think is the best plan of action for an antler-locked senate and house? The GOP doesn’t want collapse, [i don’t think] but they may wish to continue to blame Obama for something they clearly had a hand in causing…so how do you think they will eventually resolve it? Bush, but the Clinton Administration also bear responsibility: > [@](#): > > What’s more, George W. Bush was a major proponent of the kind of mortgages that banks had started making under the CRA. He urged low-to-no doc mortgages and the elimination of downpayments, just like the CRA regulators had long done. “We certainly don’t want there to be a fine print preventing people from owning their home,” the President said in a 2002 speech. “We can change the print, and we’ve got to.” > > … > Finally, the Clinton adminstration threatened to subject the mortgage companies to the CRA if they didn’t comply voluntarily. They promptly agreed to increase their CRA-type lending in order to escape the kind of public scrutiny that comes with official CRA regulated status… > **[Here's How The Community Reinvestment Act Led To The Housing Bubble's Lax...](https://www.businessinsider.com/the-cra-debate-a-users-guide-2009-6)** > > A user's guide to the CRA debate, breaking down its implications for the economy and banking sector. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-so-slippry-a-slope-bush-has-always-been-the-one-to-blame-for-our-current-economic-crisis/590401.md?page=4)