# Not "sociopath" but... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685 "2008-04-02T15:41:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/1 "2008-04-02T15:41:03Z")
What do you call it when someone is totally unable to emotionally connect or bond with other people and therefore all their emotions are feigned? I used to have a co-worker like this. Totally non-violent, not particularly narcissitic or manipulative, but really obviously not emotionally connected to other people. She displays a pronounced emotional detatchment, but she can _feign_ appropriate emotions as long as social expectations are fairly obvious or there are other people for her to immitate. A few people in the office were talking about her the other day. They think she is a sociopath, but that doesn’t seem right. Rather than disregarding the laws of society or thinking she is above them, the rules of etiquette and protocol seem to be the _only_ way she is able to interact with people eg/ invitations, RSVPs, and thank you cards. She understands transactions. You exchange money for goods to get something you want. So she will congratulate you on your new purchase. She’ll have a creepy fake smile and say: “A new tie! How wonderful for you!” Any expectation of more complex emotions has her sitting there staring at you blankly. Eg/ A co-worker who stopped in to show off her newborn and she asked the new mom: “What do you do with it?” But as long as someone else responds, thus providing her with an example as a cue, then she’ll be able to put on the fake smile and say: “A new daughter! How wonderful for you!” It’s like she just doesn’t process emotions or have any ability to read or empathize with other people’s emotions. I looked up a list of disorders on the 'net, and nothing seems right. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/2 "2008-04-02T15:51:43Z")
There are some disorders on the Autism spectrum that sound similar. In particular, it sounds like it could be a milder version of [Asperger Syndrome.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome) “The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.” ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/3 "2008-04-02T15:56:48Z")
My mother-in-law is like this. I’m hardly an expert, but I’ve often wondered if she had a form of Asperger Syndrome. It’s funny you mention the baby thing - I had a very similar experience with M-i-L last summer. We were at a Fourth of July festival in a local park, and ran into my aunt and mother. Aunt had just gotten a call on her cell phone telling her that her daughter just had a baby, and Aunt was ecstatic. I overheard her telling the news to my M-i-L. M-i-L had no reaction. None. There was a very slight pause, then she changed the subject to something completely different and mundane (“the hotdogs here are really good” or some such thing) I’ve seen her do this so many times, to so many people, that I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s something not right in her. I used to think she was merely rude, but I don’t think that any more - she just doesn’t know how to react or how to connect with people. She’s VERY much “transactional”, as you mention below. If someone does something for her, she’ll do something back. But she doesn’t understand that things aren’t a balance sheet, and it’s OK if things don’t even up all the time. Probably the worst thing is that she has no empathy for others. My mother, for example, has broken lunch dates with her on occasion. My mother is the primary caregiver for my very old grandmother, she’s in her 70s herself, and my Dad’s had a bunch of health problems over the past couple years. When the lunch date was canceled, it was because my mother simply got overwhelmed with her responsibilities, and was tired. All M-i-L understands is that my mother canceled on her - there is no understanding or sympathy that sometimes people overbook and my mother, of all people, has a lot on her shoulders. In M-i-L’s eyes, my mother is “flighty” and can’t keep a promise. I would looove to get her tested for Asperger, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. And even if it did, I’m not sure anything could be done - she’s almost 70 and pretty set in her ways. So, anyway, I don’t have anything solid to offer you, other than I know someone similar to your coworker. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/4 "2008-04-02T16:04:17Z")
Possibly [schizoid personality disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder) or [schizotypal personality disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder)? ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/5 "2008-04-02T16:18:45Z")
I thought of Aspergers but that’s doesn’t seem quite right either because there is no impairment at all with non-verbal communication (other than the fact that it’s creepily insincere). For example, far from avoiding eye-contact, she used to stare at you _really_ intently because she was trying to get a clue from your expression what her appropriate response might be. Once she would figure out what the appropriate response is, her body language is on target, although slightly exaggerated (like she got the right ingredients for the recipe, but was a little foggy on the correct amounts). Her job was sales and she was really good at it on the phone because her default was to sound enthuastic. To make up for the lack of visual cues, she would ask: “And how was that?” a lot. If a client said: “My son’s team won their game!” She would enthusiastically say: “Uh-huh! Uh-huh! And how was that?” so the client would answer: “We’re so proud/happy/whatever.” and that would provider her with what she needed to continue the conversation. “How wonderful for you!” It works well for her because she tries so hard to fill in the blank with the correct response. So she’s good at her job, because in short telephone sales conversations, you don’t see the weird body language and clients get to gush about themselves. In person though, it comes across more like… parody somehow. It sounds more like what **Athena** described. She can keep up if everything follows a transaction pattern, but if she has to intuit more complexed or nuanced emotions, she can’t keep up. But her strategies seem to work okay. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/6 "2008-04-02T16:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Possibly [schizoid personality disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder) or [schizotypal personality disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder)? [/QUOTE] I looked up those too, but they don’t fit. She’s not a loner or anything. In fact she likes to host events and invites my female co-workers to tea and stuff. That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She’s totally into the itemizable stuff like that. She doesn’t avoid people, she tries really hard to interact (or pretends to). Is there some kind of “broken social bonding” disorder? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/7 "2008-04-02T16:41:27Z")
[slightly aside] [not snark, just wondering] Can I ask, why does she need to have a label, a “disorder”? Why can’t she just be someone who has trouble connecting emotionally to other people? I know two people like that, but I don’t feel a need to say, “Oh, he’s like that because he has X Syndrome”; I just call the one “Mister Strangeperson” and the other one “The World’s Oldest Thirteen-Year-Old” and let it go at that. And actually, what you’re describing–someone who tries hard to fit in but seems a little distant–just sounds like “social awkwardness”, a lack of social skills. Lots of people out there have a lack of social skills. I myself probably strike people as like your co-worker; I tend to be emotionally detached, and sometimes don’t know what to say in social situations, so I fall back on general pleasantries which may not always be _exactly_ what the situation calls for. But I’d be surprised to find that someone thought I had Asperger’s or something. I’m shy and awkward, not dysfunctional. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/8 "2008-04-02T16:48:46Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] And actually, what you’re describing–someone who tries hard to fit in but seems a little distant–just sounds like “social awkwardness”, a lack of social skills. Lots of people out there have a lack of social skills. I myself probably strike people as like your co-worker; I tend to be emotionally detached, and sometimes don’t know what to say in social situations, so I fall back on general pleasantries which may not always be _exactly_ what the situation calls for. But I’d be surprised to find that someone thought I had Asperger’s or something. I’m shy and awkward, not dysfunctional. [/QUOTE] You might be right, but with my M-i-L, it’s not just “shy and awkward.” It’s hard to describe. Mr. Athena used to tell me all the time that there was something very weird about his mother, but I never saw it until she moved closer to us and I saw her more often. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/9 "2008-04-02T16:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] I looked up those too, but they don’t fit. She’s not a loner or anything. In fact she likes to host events and invites my female co-workers to tea and stuff. That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She’s totally into the itemizable stuff like that. [/QUOTE] It does sound a lot like Asperger’s, but some people with schizoid personality disorder present themselves as outwardly engaging while inwardly emotionally unavailable, the “secret schizoid.” From the wikipedia article: > [@](#): > > According to Ralph Klein[20] there are many fundamentally schizoid individuals who present with an engaging, interactive personality style which contradicts the timidity, reluctance, or avoidance of the external world and interpersonal relationships as emphasized by the DSM-IV and ICD-10 definitions of the schizoid personality. Klein classifies these individuals as secret schizoids[20] who present themselves as socially available, interested, engaged, and involved in interacting in the eyes of the observer, while at the same time, he or she is apart, emotionally withdrawn, and sequestered in a safe place in his or her own internal world. So, while withdrawnness or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid pathology, it is sometimes overt and sometimes covert. While it is overt it matches the usual description of the schizoid personality offered in the DSM-IV. According to Klein, though, it is “just as often” a covert, hidden internal state of the patient in which what meets the objective eye may not be what is present in the subjective, internal world of the patient. Klein therefore cautions that one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient because one cannot see the patient’s withdrawnness through the patient’s defensive, compensatory, engaging interaction with external reality. Klein suggests that one need only ask the patient what his or her subjective experience is in order to detect the presence of the schizoid refusal of emotional intimacy.[20] Descriptions of the schizoid personality as hidden behind an outward appearance of emotional engagement have long been recognized, beginning with Fairbairn’s (1940) description of ‘schizoid exhibitionism’ in which he remarked that the schizoid individual is able to express quite a lot of feeling and to make what appear to be impressive social contacts but in reality giving nothing and losing nothing, because since he is only playing a part his own personality is not involved. According to Fairbairn, the person “…disowns the part which he is playing and thus the schizoid individual seeks to preserve his own personality intact and immune from compromise.” ---
**Author:** ![nofloyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nofloyd/32/2870_2.png) [@nofloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nofloyd)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/10 "2008-04-02T17:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] I thought of Aspergers but that’s doesn’t seem quite right either … For example, far from avoiding eye-contact, she used to stare at you _really_ intently because she was trying to get a clue from your expression what her appropriate response might be. [/QUOTE] Still sounds like Aspergers to me. I thought that improper staring is one of the coping mechanisms some adopt when they realize they need extra help. And Apergers/autistic disorders are a spectrum, that can present mildly or very impairing. I know someone who is very likely a mild Asperger’s case, who leads a pretty normal life all things considered, but has many ‘tricks’ to get by. Knowing the script for a situation helps him out very much. Any signs like an obsessive interest they are expert about, repetitive movements? Any atypical use of language? Intonation? Social register? My guy always errs on being too polite, doesn’t understand when a more informal speech pattern is appropriate. Ex., leaving a phone message for an intimate friend, he’ll end with “Please return my call at your earliest convenience” - like it’s a business call. Echolalia? Repetition of vocalizations made by another person. His is delayed echolalia. There are odd phrases he repeats originally made by others years ago when the right situation arises. It’s a compulsion, sometimes I’ve caught him trying to fight it. And it’s stuff no one else would understand. I asked him about a phrase he’s sometimes compelled to utter in laundromats that makes him sound like a racist jerk. Turns out it something his town’s mayor said 25 years ago and he agrees that it was a racist thing to say and he doesn’t think that way. Doesn’t click that no one remembers this and people will thinks it’s his own belief. > **[Asperger syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers)** > > Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's syndrome or Asperger's, is a formerly used diagnostic category for a condition characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It ceased to be a distinct diagnosis when it was merged into autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in the DSM-5 (2013) and ICD-11 (2022). Previously, it had been classified as a pervasive development AS was con... ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/11 "2008-04-02T17:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] There are some disorders on the Autism spectrum that sound similar. In particular, it sounds like it could be a milder version of [Asperger Syndrome.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome) “The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.” [/QUOTE] You just described the hell out of me. I have an ex-girlfriend on the Dope who may wish to chime in on whether that fits. She’s invited to. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/12 "2008-04-02T17:05:50Z")
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose] Can I ask, why does she need to have a label, a “disorder”? Why can’t she just be someone who has trouble connecting emotionally to other people? [/QUOTE] She doesn’t need a label, but her behavior is so extremely odd, I was wondering if there was a corresponding pathology that might explain it. For example, if you saw me shuffling along, maybe it’s just that I have an unusual way of walking, but if it’s a really pronounced limp, you’d probably wonder if I’d gone and hurt myself. There’s “wow, she’s really weird!” eccentric and then there is “we are afraid of her” eccentric. She tended to be the latter. Not scary, but she made everyone uneasy enough that no one wanted to run into her in a dark alley. She also used to buy baby clothes for her children. She doesn’t have any children, wasn’t pregnant, and had no plans on becoming pregnant. She also asked a friend host her bridal shower, but she was single at the time (no boyfriend or fiance). She was just “planning ahead”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/13 "2008-04-02T17:09:00Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] I looked up those too, but they don’t fit. She’s not a loner or anything. In fact she likes to host events and invites my female co-workers to tea and stuff. That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She’s totally into the itemizable stuff like that. She doesn’t avoid people, she tries really hard to interact (or pretends to). Is there some kind of “broken social bonding” disorder? [/QUOTE] \*\*That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She’s totally into the itemizable stuff like that. \*\* Uh, that also sounds like an Aspie trait. Won’t say that’s her situation, but heads up. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/14 "2008-04-02T17:13:35Z")
Another thing about Asperger’s – or indeed, most psychological exceptionalities – is that they fall on a continuum between “no symptoms at all” through “full-blown expression of all the symptoms”. **Swallowed’s** coworker may have a relatively mild case, exhibiting only a few of the wide gamut of Asperger’s symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/15 "2008-04-02T17:14:40Z")
Actually, I retract part of my last post. I don’t think anyone would ever have been afraid to run into her in a dark alley. She seemed to have a really good heart actually. And it was completely unfair for me to be an ass and say that. But she did make everyone extremely uneasy. Like if you’re a guy, and you get an invitation to a bridal shower for someone who isn’t getting married, it kind of weirds you out a little. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/16 "2008-04-02T17:14:54Z")
I read something recently about not being able to perceive other people emotionally. It was related to face blindness, but I can’t seem to find it. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/17 "2008-04-02T17:20:36Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Slant] \*\*That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She’s totally into the itemizable stuff like that. \*\* Uh, that also sounds like an Aspie trait. Won’t say that’s her situation, but heads up. [/QUOTE] Huh, I never thought of that. You’re right. And a lot of what **nofloyd** described is on target too. She did seem fine in really predictable social circumstances (that could follow an anticipated pattern). Anyway, I can’t even remember how she came up in conversation. Just some of my co-workers were speculating that she was a “sociopath” and I thought that was total BS. She was never self-centered and manipulative. Just “disconnected.” As I said, I was a total ass when I said that uncalled for “dark alley” bit. She’s definitely unusual, but she makes an enormous effort to be nice to people and fit in. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/18 "2008-04-02T17:22:05Z")
Op, Would you say that she’s running her social skills in emulation rather than directly on the hardware? ---
**Author:** ![Soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/19 "2008-04-02T17:39:17Z")
> **[Reduced affect display](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunted_affect)** > > Reduced affect display, sometimes referred to as emotional blunting or emotional numbing, is a condition of reduced emotional reactivity in an individual. It manifests as a failure to express feelings either verbally or nonverbally, especially when talking about issues that would normally be expected to engage emotions. In this condition, expressive gestures are rare and there is little animation in facial expression or vocal inflection. Additionally, reduced affect can be symptomatic of autis What you’re describing sounds to me like the more serious version of Blunted Affect, Flat Affect. This is a symptom of other disorders, not a disorder in and of itself. It’s often described as “knowing the words but not the music,” or “wearing a mask of sanity.” As usual, this is mere recollection from one or two of my classes (this one comes as a combination from Abnormal Psychology and Criminal Psychology). YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685/20 "2008-04-02T17:52:34Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Slant] Op, Would you say that she’s running her social skills in emulation rather than directly on the hardware? [/QUOTE] Yup, exactly. And her emulation tends to be a little larger than life too (hence the previous comparisson to parody). I’ve noticed my female co-workers found her much more unsettling than the guys did, for some reason. I think there was stuff going on that the guys weren’t privvy to, but I do know that once she caused enough of a problem in her department that management had to intervene. I just found it exceptionally difficult to have a conversation with her, and some of her more unusual invitations to be on the “creepy” side of socially inappropriate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-sociopath-but/443685.md?page=2)