# (not Trump) Who the hell doesn't realize that kissing someone without consent is illegal and creepy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025 "2016-10-09T02:19:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/21 "2016-10-09T19:43:35Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > So, let me get this straight… I had this one aunt when I was a kid, she always wanted to kiss me on the cheek. I absolutely _hated_ it as a kid, mostly because she always wore some kind of smeary lipstick. > > That was sexual assault? . . . No…and spanking your kid is not assault and battery. And when the EMT compresses your chest, or the fireman lifts you over his shoulder and carries you down the ladder, it isn’t battery, either. We can play this game all day. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/22 "2016-10-10T11:48:41Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > My wife has this female friend, who I generally liked. She insists on giving me a hug whenever she sees me. I’m not a physical person. I’ve let her know I don’t like it, yet she continues to do it. She thinks my discomfort is funny. Should I have her charged legally? As it is now, I try to avoid her and don’t go to places I know she’'ll be. Next time she hugs you, hug her right back, _and do not let go_. Your mouth is right next to her ear, so harshly whisper something along the lines of, “you know this makes me uncomfortable, and yet you still do it. Don’t. Do. It. Again.”. Eventually let her go, but not until you are certain you’ve made your point. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/23 "2016-10-10T12:06:42Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Grabbing anyone by their genitalia without their consent, grabbing a woman by her breasts without her consent, using physical force to kiss someone against their will. > > ^ ALL of these things are sexual assault. There is NO question. There is NO debate. Just stating there is no question does not make it so. I don’t want to derail the thread because it’s mostly spot on but you are wrong. Specifically in the state where you live kissing someone against their will is absolutely not any type of sexual assault. Creepy as hell and probably illegal depending on the particular circumstances but not sexual assault. I’ve seen cases prosecuted and they were charged as harassment. I guess it’s possible to be a sex crime under some state statute but I would have to see a cite. To be technical neither are the other two since sexual assault is the legal term for rape and those would be criminal sexual contact but that only matters if you are arguing the specific legal aspects. In layman’s terms it’s perfectly acceptable to label it as a sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/24 "2016-10-10T16:43:43Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > typical liberal smear game; this is not whether about its right or wrong; this is about whether its sexual assault, or as iiiandyiii said, is on some same continuum as sexual assault. In reality, it may be an unwanted physical advance, but that does not have the same gravity as sexual assault, and groping does not have the same gravity as rape. And no one needs to explain why! > > Yes this is the downside to these arguments; the other side tries to paint you as sympathetic to those who do improper things, and I’m not. I’m merely trying to oppose the attempt to make all bad actions as bad as each other, because before we know it, speeding in a car will have some sort of intersectionality reason its as bad as hitting someone with a bat, if such minded people graduate their leftist art degrees and run for office… {Barry White music playing in the background} Hey Derek. I’m a big fella and and I have noticed you. _Oh, yeah_. Why don’t you come on over here. Aw, don’t be like that. I know you like me. C’mon, just go with it. \*Oh yeah. \* What’s the matter? I’m a great kisser, you know you want it! You are saying no, but I see yes in your eyes. _Oh yeah._ This ain’t sexual assault, _aw no._ I’m a big powerful man who knows what a man likes. _Oh yeah._ It’s not sexual assault if you don’t feel like hitting me. You don’t wanna hit me, right? If you want to hit me right now, \*it’s because I am sexually assaulting you. \* ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/25 "2016-10-10T17:41:18Z")
I assume that anyone who defends or downplays “unwanted physical advances”— like kissing without consent— online, is someone who in real life has no chance of getting anyone’s consent. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/26 "2016-10-10T18:43:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > To be technical neither are the other two since sexual assault is the legal term for rape and those would be criminal sexual contact but that only matters if you are arguing the specific legal aspects. As you say, depending on the state. In CA sexual battery and rape are classed differently. Grab somebody’s boob, it is sexual battery. Actual non-consensual intercourse is rape. _(a) Any person who touches an intimate part of another person while that person is unlawfully restrained by the accused or an accomplice, and if the touching is against the will of the person touched and is for the purpose of sexual arousal, sexual gratification, or sexual abuse, is guilty of sexual battery.  A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, and by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000);  or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years, and by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000)._ From California Penal Code Section 243.4. As the link I posted above demonstrates, that has in at least some cases been extended to include forcible kissing ( I remembered seeing that case in the news last year ). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/27 "2016-10-10T19:58:02Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > As you say, depending on the state. In CA sexual battery and rape are classed differently. Grab somebody’s boob, it is sexual battery. Actual non-consensual intercourse is rape. > > _(a) Any person who touches an intimate part of another person while that person is unlawfully restrained by the accused or an accomplice, and if the touching is against the will of the person touched and is for the purpose of sexual arousal, sexual gratification, or sexual abuse, is guilty of sexual battery.  A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, and by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000);  or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years, and by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000)._ > > From California Penal Code Section 243.4. > > As the link I posted above demonstrates, that has in at least some cases been extended to include forcible kissing ( I remembered seeing that case in the news last year ). New Jersey doesn’t ever use the word rape. There is criminal sexual contact, aggravated criminal sexual contact, sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault. Our sexual contact law reads pretty similar to what you cite above. However you have to look a little further into other parts of the chapter to see that intimate parts are specifically defined and lips ain’t one of them. I had a guy grab a 13 year old to kiss her and it was prosecuted as harassment. Regardless of how it is defined in the law it isn’t something anyone should be doing up to and including a presidential candidate. I’m sorry if it seems nitpicky but when someone says there is no question or debate when stating something wrong I feel compelled to say something. I guess that’s why I’ve been here so long. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/28 "2016-10-10T21:41:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m sorry if it seems nitpicky but when someone says there is no question or debate when stating something wrong I feel compelled to say something. I guess that’s why I’ve been here so long. This site wouldn’t exist without pedantry and I’d be the first tossed out on my ear if it were ever banned :D. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/29 "2016-10-10T22:04:09Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I haven’t but 1 out of 5 women will be raped some time in their life. Uh, no. That’s ridiculous. Fortunately. Maybe you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/30 "2016-10-10T22:09:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Uh, no. That’s ridiculous. Fortunately. Maybe you have a cite? Here are some other numbers (there’s no exact way to know since so many rapes and attempted rapes are unreported): [A 1998 study](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf) found that 1 in 6 women were raped or experienced an attempted rape. A [2007 study](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf) found that about 19% of college women report rape or attempted rape. A [2000 study](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf) found it was more like 1 in 9 or so. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/31 "2016-10-10T22:20:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Here are some other numbers (there’s no exact way to know since so many rapes and attempted rapes are unreported): > > [A 1998 study](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf) found that 1 in 6 women were raped or experienced an attempted rape. A [2007 study](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf) found that about 19% of college women report rape or attempted rape. A [2000 study](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf) found it was more like 1 in 9 or so. Even that sounds like exaggerated numbers. And notice that they are NOT numbers for RAPE. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/32 "2016-10-10T22:33:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Even that sounds like exaggerated numbers. And notice that they are NOT numbers for RAPE. What does it mean that it “sounds like exaggerated numbers”? And yes, it’s rape and attempted rape. That’s what those studies looked at. If you dig they might separate the two – I think the last one had completed-rape at about 10% or so. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/33 "2016-10-11T01:57:53Z")
**DerekMichaels00** has to go and get a stepladder whenever he want to kiss a woman against her will, and that gives her time to run away. No wonder he’s frustrated. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/34 "2016-10-12T13:51:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Even that sounds like exaggerated numbers. And notice that they are NOT numbers for RAPE. Here you go, buddy. [CDC National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey.](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm?s_cid=ss6308a1_e) > [@](#): > > Results: In the United States, an estimated 19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes; an estimated 1.6% of women reported that they were raped in the 12 months preceding the survey. The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate. An estimated 43.9% of women and 23.4% of men experienced other forms of sexual violence during their lifetimes, including being made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences. The percentages of women and men who experienced these other forms of sexual violence victimization in the 12 months preceding the survey were an estimated 5.5% and 5.1%, respectively. People have a tendency to underreport such things on surveys, so the actual numbers are probably higher. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/35 "2016-10-12T20:32:57Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Seriously people, this is not hard, so her are a few steps that may help you from being a creepy rapist ass. Or just follow the framework for giving someone cup of tea. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/u7Nii5w2FaI/maxresdefault.jpg "Tea and Consent (british VO version)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Nii5w2FaI) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/36 "2016-10-12T21:32:17Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > **DerekMichaels00** has to go and get a stepladder whenever he want to kiss a woman against her will, and that gives her time to run away. No wonder he’s frustrated. Points! ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025/37 "2016-10-14T15:46:46Z")
Richard Dawson? (May he rest in peace.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-trump-who-the-hell-doesnt-realize-that-kissing-someone-without-consent-is-illegal-and-creepy/768025.md?page=1)