# Not Voting : A Right or Irresponsible
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 28, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345 "2005-10-28T18:28:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/1 "2005-10-28T18:28:15Z")
In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=341877) thread, I started to repond to this comment by **mswas** , but didn’t want to hijack the thread.
> [@mswas](#):
>
> That’s disgusting. The right not to vote is as sacred as the right to vote, it’s called “FREEDOM”, I know most of America missed the memo, but I’m really surprised you of all people didn’t. Freedom means the right to choose, choose ANYTHING. People like you encouraging ignorant people to vote is part of the problem. Everyone should have the RIGHT to vote sure, but only people who pay attention and care about it should actually vote.
>
> Every ignorant vote cancels out one educated vote, because the ignorant person doesn’t KNOW if the person they voted for represents them or not, therefore if represented, it is only by accident.
I _strongly_ disagree.
Not voting is stupid and irresponsible, not “sacred”. Frankly, the idea that it’s OK not to vote is ruining this country; the loonies are in charge because _loonies vote_.
_Everyone_ should vote, as this is supposed to be a democracy; those who don’t aren’t pulling their own weight. Frankly, I think we should do something like add an extra tax to those who don’t vote to make up for it. Who knows, that might even bestir them into actually fullfilling their civil responsibilities.
So, what say the Dopers ? Am I over the top, or is **mswas** in error ?
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/2 "2005-10-28T18:34:03Z")
I think you’re way over the top. A tax, for people who don’t vote? One of the benefits of a democracy is not having to vote if you don’t want to.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/3 "2005-10-28T18:35:25Z")
How can it be called a free country if one doesn’t have the right to vote.
Also, what possible benefit can be had from forcing ignorant people to vote?
Erek
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### Author:  [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/4 "2005-10-28T18:35:52Z")
Definitely over the top. Not voting may suggest apathy, it may also suggest disgust with the entire system. Granted, as a way of protesting the way things are done it probably does not register on the scale, but nonetheless it could be seen as such
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/5 "2005-10-28T18:36:27Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> How can it be called a free country if one doesn’t have the right to vote.
>
> Also, what possible benefit can be had from forcing ignorant people to vote?
>
> Erek
Right NOT to vote…sorry
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### Author:  [@Noctolator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noctolator)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/6 "2005-10-28T18:37:25Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#):
>
> I _strongly_ disagree.
> Not voting is stupid and irresponsible, not “sacred”. Frankly, the idea that it’s OK not to vote is ruining this country; the loonies are in charge because _loonies vote_.
>
> _Everyone_ should vote, as this is supposed to be a democracy; those who don’t aren’t pulling their own weight. Frankly, I think we should do something like add an extra tax to those who don’t vote to make up for it. Who knows, that might even bestir them into actually fullfilling their civil responsibilities.
>
> So, what say the Dopers ? Am I over the top, or is **mswas** in error ?
Voting is not compulsory nor should it be. Ever. It is a privilege and frankly, most folks aren’t even equal to the task. Less stupid people should vote. This privilege should be better defended [and taught] so that it’s more effective. What you propose is far less effective.
“Political corruption begins with every voter who votes his pocketbook instead of for what’s good for the country. There is little difference between the selling of his vote by an elected official and the selling of his vote by a voter, to whatever candidate promises him some benefit.”
– Jon Roland, campaign speech for Congress, 1974
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/7 "2005-10-28T18:42:36Z")
> [@mswas](#):
>
> How can it be called a free country if one doesn’t have the right to vote.
>
> Also, what possible benefit can be had from forcing ignorant people to vote?
>
> Erek
Right NOT to vote…sorry
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/8 "2005-10-28T18:53:17Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> I think you’re way over the top. A tax, for people who don’t vote? One of the benefits of a democracy is not having to vote if you don’t want to.
How is that a benefit of democracy ? It sounds more like a negation of it.
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#):
>
> Definitely over the top. Not voting may suggest apathy, it may also suggest disgust with the entire system. Granted, as a way of protesting the way things are done it probably does not register on the scale, but nonetheless it could be seen as such
That’s nice in theory, but in reality it amounts to letting the system roll right over you. If you don’t vote, you hand control over to those who do.
> [@Noctolator](#):
>
> Voting is not compulsory nor should it be. Ever. It is a privilege and frankly, most folks aren’t even equal to the task. Less stupid people should vote. This privilege should be better defended [and taught] so that it’s more effective. What you propose is far less effective.
Voting is a _right_, not a privilege; I also think it should be an obligation. You may think the majority of people are too stupid to run their own lives ( a _very_ undemocratic attitude ); I disagree. More to the point, they have the right to do so. We have all sorts of laws and regulations to keep people from doing stupid/unthinking things; why not one about something this important ?
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### Author:  [@Noctolator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noctolator)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/9 "2005-10-28T18:56:50Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#):
>
> Voting is a _right_, not a privilege; I also think it should be an obligation. You may think the majority of people are too stupid to run their own lives ( a _very_ undemocratic attitude ); I disagree. More to the point, they have the right to do so. We have all sorts of laws and regulations to keep people from doing stupid/unthinking things; why not one about something this important ?
If voting is a ‘right’, especially if you call it a ‘civil right’ then by definition it can not be taken away. Rights can not be lost, for then they would not be ‘rights’. Privileges can be lost (ask any teenager!), but not rights. Also, ‘rights’ belong to everyone equally, so if you have any rules about voting, it can not be a ‘right’. Many countries have a minimum voting age. Well, since many countries are filled with convicted criminals that can not vote, as well as underage people that can not vote, voting can not be legally considered a ‘right’.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/10 "2005-10-28T19:02:37Z")
> [@Noctolator](#):
>
> Voting is not compulsory nor should it be. Ever. It is a privilege and frankly, most folks aren’t even equal to the task.
Voting is a right. It is not a privilege. Please do not mix the two.
I have the right to vote. Inherent in that right is my personal choice to actively participate in that right by casting a ballot. Also inherent in that right is my personal choice not to participate if that be the case. The _privilege of my decision_ whether I choose to cast a ballot, or not, solely belongs to me.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/11 "2005-10-28T19:02:58Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#):
>
> How is that a benefit of democracy ? It sounds more like a negation of it.
They are voting for “none of the above” in all categories. They are excercising their FREEDOM to do what they want to do on election day.
> [@](#):
>
> That’s nice in theory, but in reality it amounts to letting the system roll right over you. If you don’t vote, you hand control over to those who do.
How is this different in a system where the ignorant vote for candidates they do not know?
> [@](#):
>
> Voting is a _right_, not a privilege; I also think it should be an obligation. You may think the majority of people are too stupid to run their own lives ( a _very_ undemocratic attitude ); I disagree. More to the point, they have the right to do so. We have all sorts of laws and regulations to keep people from doing stupid/unthinking things; why not one about something this important ?
It would be an obligation at the expense of their right to self-determination. If the majority is not ignorant and votes, then they are not too stupid to vote. If the majority is ignorant, then the majority is too stupid to vote. How is it smart to vote when you are ignorant? Also, how do you plan to enforce this? Are you suggesting we create another bureaucratic agency for which we must pay taxes in order to create a government that FORCES us to do things we don’t want to?
In this case, I think it is leaving people with their RIGHT not to do stupid and unthinking things. Like vote for a candidate unthinkingly.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/12 "2005-10-28T19:05:09Z")
> [@Duckster](#):
>
> Voting is a right. It is not a privilege. Please do not mix the two.
>
> I have the right to vote. Inherent in that right is my personal choice to actively participate in that right by casting a ballot. Also inherent in that right is my personal choice not to participate if that be the case. The _privilege of my decision_ whether I choose to cast a ballot, or not, solely belongs to me.
Can not the ‘privilege’ to vote be removed as a punitive measure by the courts for a legal infraction of a certain severity?
Erek
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### Author:  [@Noctolator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noctolator)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/13 "2005-10-28T19:08:57Z")
> [@Duckster](#):
>
> Voting is a right. It is not a privilege. Please do not mix the two.
Here’s what I already said about this.
> [@Noctolator](#):
>
> If voting is a ‘right’, especially if you call it a ‘civil right’ then by definition it can not be taken away. Rights can not be lost, for then they would not be ‘rights’. Privileges can be lost (ask any teenager!), but not rights. Also, ‘rights’ belong to everyone equally, so if you have any rules about voting, it can not be a ‘right’. Many countries have a minimum voting age. Well, since many countries are filled with convicted criminals that can not vote, as well as underage people that can not vote, voting can not be legally considered a ‘right’.
Please tell me if I am wrong in the mix.
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/14 "2005-10-28T19:13:03Z")
> [@Noctolator](#):
>
> “Political corruption begins with every voter who votes his pocketbook instead of for what’s good for the country. There is little difference between the selling of his vote by an elected official and the selling of his vote by a voter, to whatever candidate promises him some benefit.”
> – Jon Roland, campaign speech for Congress, 1974
Not to take too much issue with this, but Roland’s a bit inaccurate. Political corrupution actually begins with every elected representative who votes the pocketbooks of his constituency. The public then perpetuates it by re-electing these hogs-at-the-trough.
How 'bout on every ballot there’s a box we could check for “none of the above.” If that selection garners a simple majority, the office goes unfilled. **Then** we’d have a true measure of the apathy of the citizenry. I say this only half in jest.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/15 "2005-10-28T19:15:36Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#):
>
> Not to take too much issue with this, but Roland’s a bit inaccurate. Political corrupution actually begins with every elected representative who votes the pocketbooks of his constituency. The public then perpetuates it by re-electing these hogs-at-the-trough.
>
> How 'bout on every ballot there’s a box we could check for “none of the above.” If that selection garners a simple majority, the office goes unfilled. **Then** we’d have a true measure of the apathy of the citizenry. I say this only half in jest.
Requiring them to go to the polling station is impinging their freedom. Freedom first, Demoracy next. The Government should be subservient to the populace, not the other way around, that’s the major flaw here.
Erek
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/16 "2005-10-28T19:21:15Z")
The examples of countries with 100% voting records does lend itself to support for the OP. Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, for instance.
You can have my non-vote when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/17 "2005-10-28T19:34:26Z")
Everyone has the right to vote or not to vote. However if you don’t vote I don’t see how you can complain about the government. You turned down your chance to have your say, shut up now.
In Canada, at least, you can go to the polling station and refuse your vote. This, IMO, is a much more effective way of registering your displeasure with the current political scene. It shows that you do care, you just feel you don’t have a viable option. If you just don’t vote, IMO, it just looks like you are to lazy/stupid/ignorant to find one single issue that you care about, and vote solely on that. That may not be the best way to vote, but at least your voice can be heard.
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that in Australia you basically HAVE to vote. If you don’t you can be fined. As well voting day is a holiday. Of course this could be a load of baloney.
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### Author:  [@Noctolator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noctolator)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/18 "2005-10-28T19:38:56Z")
> [@Queuing](#):
>
> I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that in Australia you basically HAVE to vote. If you don’t you can be fined. As well voting day is a holiday. Of course this could be a load of baloney.
An Australian politics professor I recently spoke with told me voting is in fact compulsory. They also have a runoff system.
In the U.S. Election day is a federal holiday and schools, public institutions and banks and many businesses are closed in order to remove financial disincentive from participating.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/19 "2005-10-28T19:42:24Z")
> [@Queuing](#):
>
> Everyone has the right to vote or not to vote. However if you don’t vote I don’t see how you can complain about the government. You turned down your chance to have your say, shut up now.
>
> In Canada, at least, you can go to the polling station and refuse your vote. This, IMO, is a much more effective way of registering your displeasure with the current political scene. It shows that you do care, you just feel you don’t have a viable option. If you just don’t vote, IMO, it just looks like you are to lazy/stupid/ignorant to find one single issue that you care about, and vote solely on that. That may not be the best way to vote, but at least your voice can be heard.
>
> I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that in Australia you basically HAVE to vote. If you don’t you can be fined. As well voting day is a holiday. Of course this could be a load of baloney.
See, I see one of the side-effects of freedom as the right to be lazy/stupid/ignorant, and still have the right to complain about the system. Let people complain all they want, it’s not like you’re required to listen.
Erek
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/20 "2005-10-28T19:52:02Z")
> [@Queuing](#):
>
> Everyone has the right to vote or not to vote. However if you don’t vote I don’t see how you can complain about the government. You turned down your chance to have your say, shut up now.
Nope. I’m still a taxpayer and still have a vested interest in how my money is spent, whether I’ve voted or not.
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