# Not Voting : A Right or Irresponsible **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345 "2005-10-28T18:28:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/21 "2005-10-28T20:14:55Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Nope. I’m still a taxpayer and still have a vested interest in how my money is spent, whether I’ve voted or not. Well if you are so concerned with how your money is spent, how come when asked your opinion you decide not to give it? ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/22 "2005-10-28T20:17:57Z")
> [@Noctolator](#): > > An Australian politics professor I recently spoke with told me voting is in fact compulsory. They also have a runoff system. > > In the U.S. Election day is a federal holiday and schools, public institutions and banks and many businesses are closed in order to remove financial disincentive from participating. I did not know the US election day was a holiday. In Canada it is not. If you happen to work the whole time the polls are open (a period of 12 hours I believe 8-8) then you can leave work, vote, and then go back to work without being docked any pay. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/23 "2005-10-28T20:19:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > See, I see one of the side-effects of freedom as the right to be lazy/stupid/ignorant, and still have the right to complain about the system. Let people complain all they want, it’s not like you’re required to listen. > > Erek As I posted I believe you do have the right not to vote. True I am not required to listen, nor am I required to respect them. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/24 "2005-10-28T20:25:00Z")
I’d argue that voting is the least powerful way to affect the governance of our society. If I were a lobbyist that actually spoke to congressmen, I could affect policy more than I would by voting, even if I never voted. So maybe by complaining I am having more of an affect than if I voted. I however, DO vote, but oftentimes I don’t agree with ANY of the candidates, in which case “none of the above” is useful. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/25 "2005-10-28T20:32:07Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Am I over the top? Yes. Morally, to compel someone to vote when considers none of the candidates on the ballot acceptable is no better than compelling everybody in their respective countries to vote for Saddam or Fidel. (I presume you aren’t in favor of the same degree of punishment for failure to abide by your will, but that’s a separate moral issue.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/26 "2005-10-28T20:35:20Z")
> [@Noctolator](#): > > In the U.S. Election day is a federal holiday Since when? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/27 "2005-10-28T20:49:27Z")
**Der Trihs** (and hello and good to meet you), I’m more with you than against you, but I don’t quite think I’m ready for any penalty for not voting stronger than the opprobrium it deserves. I don’t want to cross-post, but for those who care, here’s what I said in the other thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6735559&postcount=34](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6735559&postcount=34) I do like the idea of a “vote withheld” ballot option, and think that that might discharge a principled non-voter’s civic obligation nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Lish\_Lash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@Lish\_Lash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lish_Lash)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/28 "2005-10-28T20:54:58Z")
> [@Queuing](#): > > Well if you are so concerned with how your money is spent, how come when asked your opinion you decide not to give it? My opinion when presented with each election’s list of candidates is most often “NONE OF THE ABOVE”. In my view, voters should have the power to nullify an election by voting NOTA. Elections held in the USA do not allow me to express my opinion in a meaningful manner. The last time I voted, I was given an electronic card to insert into a computerized voting machine. Afterwards, I was given a generic receipt. At no time was any physical or traceable evidence of my vote provided to me. I would never consent to conducting business or legal transactions in this manner. Until US elections can provide documented evidence of their results, I consider them null and void. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/29 "2005-10-28T20:56:09Z")
While it is a shameful waste of a cherished right. You have every right not to vote. In the Ideal USA, all citizens would educate themselves on the issues and candidates. In the real USA we have lots of non-voters, lots of I vote the party line do or die, plenty of the dead seem to vote each year still, Persons with Dementia using absentee ballots, conveniently filled out by others, people who barely have an idea of what they are voting for and a minority of people who at least have an idea. I am comfortable with \*\*MSWAS’s \*\* view that an ignorant vote does not actually help democracy. Taxing those who choose not to vote sounds fascist in a weird way. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/30 "2005-10-28T21:04:34Z")
> [@Queuing](#): > > I did not know the US election day was a holiday. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/31 "2005-10-28T21:14:11Z")
> [@Queuing](#): > > Well if you are so concerned with how your money is spent, how come when asked your opinion you decide not to give it? I’m hungry, and you’re the only one with food, so I’m going to buy it from you. You offer me a choice of brussels sprouts or eggplant. I don’t like either one, so I’ll take what you give me–hell, I’m still going to eat either way. I may not like it, but it’ll be filling. But neither dish had better be spoiled or rotten or burnt. Then I’ll get cranky with you. Even though it’s not my favorite food, I expect a certain standard of edibility for my money. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/32 "2005-10-28T21:21:37Z")
I’d like to point out that not voting does not mean you are not participating. What if someone didn’t vote but they planted flowers at their community garden? What if they signed a petition to keep a grocery store from being built in their neighborhood? What if they run a youth group basketball league? All of these things are participatory, and affect the overall society. Erek ---
**Author:** ![ishamael69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ishamael69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ishamael69)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/33 "2005-10-28T21:31:24Z")
To all of those who would penalize non-voters: Isn’t not having a say in who represents you penalty enough? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/34 "2005-10-28T21:32:43Z")
I’d like to point out that not voting does not mean you are not participating. What if someone didn’t vote but they planted flowers at their community garden? What if they signed a petition to keep a grocery store from being built in their neighborhood? What if they run a youth group basketball league? All of these things are participatory, and affect the overall society. Erek ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/35 "2005-10-28T22:09:49Z")
First off, here’s the Census Bureau on who votes, who doesn’t, and why: [http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p20-542.pdf](http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p20-542.pdf) (Yes, it’s a pdf, but worth it) Second, here’s why the “ignorant non-voter” argument doesn’t work (besides the fact that it’s senseless: you can hardly pretend to uphold democratic freedoms while you’re saying there’s a significant number of people out there who are too stupid to vote so it’s a good thing they don’t): 1. There’s no good evidence that non-voters _are_ more ignorant, in any meaningful way, than voters; 2. Assuming they’re not so incompetent as to require institutionalization, these people at least know some things they want out of life, what bugs or frustrates them, and so on; 3. If these people suddenly became voters, _ignorant or not_, candidates would arise to appeal to them, even if only out of opportunism. This would necessitate finding out who these people are, what they care about, and if required, how to educate them and appeal to them. Politicians would no longer be able to simply ignore portions of their constituency, safe in the knowledge that the people will return the favor; 4. One of the surest correlates of non-voter status is to have a low income, and especially to be a low-income parent. _Cite_: [http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PT\_articles/October-December\_2000/Voting\_for\_the\_Voiceless.htm](http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PT_articles/October-December_2000/Voting_for_the_Voiceless.htm) I can’t prove it, but I suspect that for a working practical knowledge of government, many of these people would rival your average college poli. sci. class, because they have to _deal with it_ on a daily basis. The bureaucracy and red tape involved in being poor is quite sophisticated, actually, and negotiating it isn’t a job for the truly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Noctolator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Noctolator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noctolator)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/36 "2005-10-28T22:14:22Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Since when? Err, since i decided it was I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Schuyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Schuyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schuyler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/37 "2005-10-28T22:26:19Z")
Yes, voting should be viewed as a shared right for all American citizens (or for whatever country to which you do claim citizenship). But as a citizen, I view my act of voting as a responsibility - sure, it doesn’t make a bit of difference from a statistical point of view, but it is the fundamental act of participation for each member of a society. So, if you don’t vote, for whatever reason I couldn’t care less, I will view that as irresponsible. But is it your right not to vote? Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/38 "2005-10-28T22:56:57Z")
I look at it this way: we have a right to free speech in this country. We also have protections _against compelled speech_. Forcing people to vote, or attempting to force people to vote, violates them. I think this Supreme Court case applies to the situation: [Wooley v. Maynard](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/wooley.html), in which the court ruled that a New Hampshire Jehovah’s Witness couple was allowed to cover up the “Live Free or Die” phrase on their license plate because it was against their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/39 "2005-10-28T23:09:29Z")
I definitely don’t think voting should be compulsory, nor should non-voting be punished. But it’s not people’s “freedom not to vote” I’m concerned about. The fact is, the people who are voting are probably better informed than those who aren’t. (Sure, some of them are completely uninformed, but do you really think it’s likely that the non-voters have on the whole devoted _as much or more_ effort to learning about the candidates and issues than the people who are _actually intending to use that knowledge?_). I don’t think getting more votes from people who are uninformed and don’t care is really going to help the country. Frankly, we’re better off without them. I think frustration with voter apathy sometimes stems from the delusion that the non-voters would overwhelmingly support the same views as the person complaining about it. I don’t buy it. The OP claims that “the loonies vote” (while presumably the sane people stay home). On the contrary, I suspect we haven’t even begun to probe the depths of lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![Faust\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Faust\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faust_1)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345/40 "2005-10-28T23:34:28Z")
> [@](#): > > In the U.S. Election day is a federal holiday Nope. I didn’t vote in the last election because I would have had to skip several classes in a public university. The voting location, as well, was for some reason far from where I live, and I have no car. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-voting-a-right-or-irresponsible/328345.md?page=3)