# not worth a tinker's dam(n)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623 "2002-03-11T17:39:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/1 "2002-03-11T17:39:37Z")
I’ve heard this expression used to basically mean “worthless”. My question: What the heck is a tinker’s dam? I’ve seen it without the “n” at the end of dam(n) most often. I know a tinker is essentially a tradesman dealing with metal goods… ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/2 "2002-03-11T17:43:31Z")
I have no intellectual response to your query, only a profuse thank you for putting to words one of those questions that has been in my mind for years that I never seem to remember to look up the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/3 "2002-03-11T17:49:07Z")
_Not worth a tinker’s damn_: Absolutely worthless. It has been suggested that the term derives from the old-time tinker’s custom of blocking up the hole in the article he was mending with a pellet of bread, thus making a dam which would prevent the solder from escaping. This pellet was discarded as useless when the job was finished. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/4 "2002-03-11T18:13:22Z")
“Not worth a tinker’s cuss” is also in common use. See [World Wide Words](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-tin1.htm) See also [The Phrase Finder](http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/12/messages/875.html) In summary: [ol] \*Tinkers used a dam to block solder from flowing where it wasn’t supposed to. They then threw away the worthless article. \*Tinkers swear a lot (hence a curse from them was a low-cost item) \*Hi Opal \*If you know what it means who really cares [/ol] ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/5 "2002-03-11T18:13:48Z")
There are two schools of thought. One was that the phrase was originally “tinker’s dam” and referred to something a tinker used to help with repairs. The other is that tinkers are known for their colorful language. If a tinker damned you, it was a very common and worthless curse. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/6 "2002-03-11T20:29:32Z")
As **Threadkiller** and **RealityChuck** point out, there are the two schools of thought. Most authorities, though, go with the _damn_ version. See, for example, [The Word Detective’s](http://www.word-detective.com/100699.html#tinkersdamn) and [The Mavens’](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000114) entries on _tinker’s damn_. The OED agrees with this. One piece of evidence is that _tinker’s curse_ seems to be a bit older than _tinker’s damn_. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/7 "2002-03-11T21:22:42Z")
Let’s not be to hard on the poor tinker. You’d be grumpy, too, in his shoes. Little ragamuffins run up to him on the street and sing out, “You tink! You tink, you tinker!” ---
**Author:** ![WonderWheeler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed655f/32.png) [@WonderWheeler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WonderWheeler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/8 "2015-10-10T02:07:44Z")
I think it comes from the technical use of a dam for the purposes of fixing pots and such. At a time when the word “damn” was fairly offensive. Using the term “Tinker’s Dam” was not considered offensive. Its about using a bit of clay or dough that is thrown away. Not offensive because it was about soldering and mending, not damning someone to hell. Which at the time was about as bad a thing as you could do to a person’s soul. People cared about souls in the 1700s and 1800s. Sort of like the joke about Dam Fish being talked about at the dinner table with the visiting preacher. The fish being of course… caught near the local dam. The joke goes on to mention f’ing potatoes by a brash youngster at the table. Thinking the preacher had okayed some rather loose talk The family is embarassed if not scandalized. The fact that tinkers might be low-lifes that cussed a lot and were frustrated by hard to do repairs on nearly worthless household articles, only add to the color of the clever expression Tinker’s Dam, imho. Despite what the ivory tower folks say, ts not Tinker’s Damn. ---
**Author:** ![WonderWheeler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed655f/32.png) [@WonderWheeler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WonderWheeler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/9 "2015-10-10T02:13:02Z")
I think it comes from the technical use of a dam for the purposes of fixing pots and such. At a time when the word “damn” was fairly offensive. Using the term “Tinker’s Dam” was not considered offensive, because it was about soldering and mending, not damning someone to hell. Which at the time was about as bad a thing as you could do to a person’s soul. People cared about souls in the 1700s and 1800s. Sort of like the joke about Dam Fish being talked about at the dinner table with the visiting preacher. The fish being of course… caught near the local dam. The joke goes on to mention f’ing potatoes by a brash youngster at the table. Thining the preacher had okayed some rather loose talk The family is embarassed if not scandalized. The fact that tinkers might be low-lifes that cussed a lot and were frustrated by hard to do repairs on nearly worthless household articles, only add to the color of the expression Tinker’s Dam, imho. Its not Tinker’s Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/10 "2015-10-10T02:17:32Z")
> [@WonderWheeler](#): > > The fact that tinkers might be low-lifes that cussed a lot and were frustrated by hard to do repairs on nearly worthless household articles, only add to the color of the clever expression Tinker’s Dam, imho. Despite what the ivory tower folks say, ts not Tinker’s Damn. How exactly do you know this better than the experts? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/11 "2015-10-10T06:13:46Z")
As a child I was taught it meant a tinker’s wife. ( Dam = Mare/Woman like Bitch/Woman ). Tinkers were very poor men who wandered around mending pots and pans etc \*, not dealers in metalcraft like a blacksmith. More like a travelling knife-grinder. Frequently Irish or Romany. Cooking pots used to get a lot of holes burnt through in the old days, as one can still achieve heating a pan on hot coals. Until recently there were little home repair kits for such holes which looked like two discs laid over each other ( one for each side ) joined by a screw in the centre. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/12 "2015-10-10T08:33:20Z")
> [@TheFreeDictionary.com](#): > > 1. Chiefly British A member of any of various traditionally itinerant groups of people living especially in Scotland and Ireland; a traveler. So not necessarilly even someone with metal working skills: just an interant day-labourer. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/13 "2015-10-10T09:59:41Z")
I think that many of you are not aware that ‘tinker’ was originally synonymous with gypsy and they were mistrusted and even feared. The phrase ‘tinker around’ meaning \*to make unskilled efforts at repair, \* gives the idea that they were traders in low value goods who also did minor repairs. Many people, especially in Ireland, believed that they would steal their children too. “A Tinker’s Damn” was a curse from a Tinker and therefore of no consequence. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/14 "2015-10-10T14:08:10Z")
My google-fu led me to a place called [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tinker's_damn), that basically confirmed what folks said above: > [@Wikitionary](#): > > Merriam-Webster finds tinker’s damn in print since 1839 and suggests that it derives from tinkers’ reputation for swearing. The spelling tinker’s dam is attested since 1858, and [phrases.org.uk](http://phrases.org.uk) notes the disagreement over whether the term originated from tinkers’ swearing or instead from their use of small, single-use dams to hold solder.[3] The latter explanation has been offered since 1877; on the other hand, the phrase tinker’s curse is attested since 1824 and the phrase worth a tinker’s cuss is attested since 1854, for which reason Etymonline considers the “dam” derivation an “ingeniously elaborate but baseless” invention of later writers. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/15 "2015-10-10T15:53:30Z")
And 13 years later the internet coughs up the answer provided in post #3. We’re slipping. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/16 "2015-10-10T17:24:21Z")
> [@WonderWheeler](#): > > … > > Sort of like the joke about Dam Fish being talked about at the dinner table with the visiting preacher. The fish being of course… caught near the local dam. > > … Then there’s the short version of grace… “Jesus Christ, this is good food!” ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/17 "2015-10-10T17:39:20Z")
So I’m riffing with “Tinker, Tailor…” and I remembered that 1920s-30s Bertie Wooster, the chucklehead Brit kept in line by Jeeves, would sometimes say “tinkerty-tonk” to say “bye,” “ciao,” or whatever. Any relation? ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/18 "2015-10-10T17:44:27Z")
> [@WonderWheeler](#): > > The fact that tinkers might be low-lifes that cussed a lot and were frustrated by hard to do repairs on **nearly worthless household articles,** only add to the color of the clever expression Tinker’s Dam, imho. Despite what the ivory tower folks say, ts not Tinker’s Damn. Perhaps today, and to you, nearly worthless. Back in the day I suspect these items worth a lot more than you suspect. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/not-worth-a-tinkers-dam-n/97623/19 "2015-10-10T19:45:35Z")
I never thought the solder dam explanation sounded quite right. It makes more sense that the original meaning was bowdlerized for polite society.