# 'Notches on his gun' trope. Any background? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334 "2020-01-13T03:37:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/21 "2020-01-13T23:17:35Z")
Don’t college football players mark their tackles or sacks or whatever with stickers on their helmets? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/22 "2020-01-13T23:22:33Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Don’t college football players mark their… sacks…? I’ve never heard of a football player marking his sack. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/23 "2020-01-13T23:47:45Z")
I caught part of a show on PBS, might have been History Detectives, and they were trying to verify some guns supposedly used in the ST. Valentines Day Massacre. They showed some notches in the stocks. [History Detectives, S7 E3](https://www.pbs.org/video/history-detectives-st-valentines-day-massacre/) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/24 "2020-01-14T00:45:35Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Don’t college football players mark their tackles or sacks or whatever with stickers on their helmets? Some teams do that, most do not. And it’s the coaches who decide who gets the stickers, not the players. So it’s not quite the same as a soldier notching his gun on his own. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/25 "2020-01-14T02:12:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Kill marks on aircraft and ships (and subs) were common and well-documented. And the Coast Guard have [bust marks for intercepted drug smuggler ships](https://www.wearethemighty.com/military-life/this-is-how-coast-guardsmen-mark-victories-over-smugglers). ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/26 "2020-01-14T02:58:42Z")
It’s probably unwise to notch your slingshot. Not exactly gun-notching but the [brave little tailor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brave_Little_Tailor) made a brag-belt reading “Seven at One Blow”. That’s better than notching a fly-swatter. I should have painted two deer and several squirrels on the door of our previous car. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/27 "2020-01-14T03:16:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’ve never heard of a football player marking his sack. 😛 To repeat an idea already posted, do you really want to mess with a guy with notches in his sack? ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/28 "2020-01-14T03:17:24Z")
My grandfathers revolver has three notches on it, probably from the early 1900’s. He was a farmer so was probably was counting snakes he killed, or skunks, or raccoons, rather than people ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/29 "2020-01-14T07:11:33Z")
I have it on good authority that Pat Benatar puts notches in her lipstick case. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/30 "2020-01-14T08:07:12Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And the Coast Guard have [bust marks for intercepted drug smuggler ships](https://www.wearethemighty.com/military-life/this-is-how-coast-guardsmen-mark-victories-over-smugglers). Nice try with the busted snowflake decals, Coast Guard, but someone should point out that proper snowflakes have six points, not eight. As for decals on warplanes for enemy kills: [This page](https://www.wearethemighty.com/military-culture/air-force-aerial-victory-marking) shows pictures of several aircraft with a bunch of souvenir insignia. One plane appears of have a row of little swastikas (hard to tell for sure, it’s unclear). One has a row of little bombs. One has a whole bunch of odd symbols that look something like little axes or something. (Meaning Italian planes shot down?) I’m pretty sure one can see planes like this at any museum of WWI or WWII military aircraft, such as Castle Museum in Atwater, Ca. And there’s this: I myself once saw an ambulance with a row of several stork decals just outside the back door. In fact, I just found [this picture](https://301txf2j650kx3hvubmojefm-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Vigilant-responds-to-woman-in-labor.jpeg) on-line of something like this. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/31 "2020-01-14T09:19:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is it possible that any of the known examples of notched guns are for utilitarian purposes, such as to make it easier to grab or hold? Possible but for grip tacks work better and always have. Google “guns decorated with tacks”. And as an addition to **ECG** s post - sometimes the notches were battles survived. I researched a CW musket once that had been notched and the number matched the number of major engagements the owner had been in. And an uncle in WW II marked his personal sidearm for each year. He sometimes joked that they were “kill marks” but those of us within the bloodline knew that each was a Christmas from 1941 to 45. I also know of one case from WW II where the marks were for close friends lost. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/32 "2020-01-14T12:07:35Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I remember being surprised after coming across [this photo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-16-Netz-107-fighter-and-killmarks-01.jpg) of kill marks on a retired F-16 on Wikipedia: 6½ aircraft, plus 1 nuclear reactor. How do you kill half an aircraft? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/33 "2020-01-14T12:24:03Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How do you kill half an aircraft? WAG-confirmed damage that forced a withdrawl/not confirmed downed or shared a kill with another aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/34 "2020-01-14T12:48:32Z")
As for the OP’s question, notchews for kills, [here’s a cite](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XXp5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA74&dq=notches+handle+murder&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=notches%20handle%20murder&f=false)from 1879. Logan had made a notch-record on one side of his hatchet handle for each prisoner taken, and on the other side for each scalp. And a gun that was [evidence in a trial](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Wqw2u0lksr4C&q=notches+pistol+murder&dq=notches+pistol+murder&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&redir_esc=y)in 1906. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/35 "2020-01-14T13:16:16Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I remember being surprised after coming across [this photo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-16-Netz-107-fighter-and-killmarks-01.jpg) of kill marks on a retired F-16 on Wikipedia: 6½ aircraft, plus 1 nuclear reactor. The most interesting kill mark that I’m aware of was racked up by American pilot [Louis E. Curdes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Screen-Shot-2016-06-28-at-12.37.49-PM-468x360.png). That pic shows his plane with kill marks for 7 German aircraft, one Italian, one Japanese…and an American. [It’s an interesting story of how that happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Edward_Curdes). ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/36 "2020-01-14T14:44:30Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > WAG-confirmed damage that forced a withdrawl/not confirmed downed or shared a kill with another aircraft. Almost invariably the latter, in cases where victories were parceled out that way. In some air arms there were individual victories and shared ones without the shared ones being expressed as fractions. Also a variety of classifications of certainty in different air arms (destroyed, probable, damaged were official categories in some cases not others). Nor did markings on planes necessarily 100% correspond to official tallies. And the sum of ‘confirmed official’ victories typically exceeded the actual number of opposing a/c destroyed, sometimes relatively slightly but sometimes by several times. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/37 "2020-01-14T14:45:26Z")
That “6 and a half” airplanes killed was from a verified kill shared with another aircraft. Oh, and I forgot to mention that the submarine _Cod_ also has an icon of a martini glass. That one was to commemorate a successful rescue operation on an allied ship, the only submarine-to-submarine rescue operation in history (both ships were surfaced at the time). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/38 "2020-01-14T15:22:44Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The most interesting kill mark that I’m aware of was racked up by American pilot [Louis E. Curdes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Screen-Shot-2016-06-28-at-12.37.49-PM-468x360.png). That pic shows his plane with kill marks for 7 German aircraft, one Italian, one Japanese…and an American. [It’s an interesting story of how that happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Edward_Curdes). Thought that was going to be the guy who shot himself down. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/39 "2020-01-14T16:15:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That “6 and a half” airplanes killed was from a verified kill shared with another aircraft. > > Oh, and I forgot to mention that the submarine _Cod_ also has an icon of a martini glass. That one was to commemorate a successful rescue operation on an allied ship, the only submarine-to-submarine rescue operation in history (both ships were surfaced at the time). [USS _Barb_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Barb_(SS-220)) had a locomotive on its [battle flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Barb_(SS-220)#/media/File:USS_Barb_crew_1945_i03570.jpg). It had landed a shore party that laid a mine on the tracks. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334/40 "2020-01-14T16:32:36Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > [USS _Barb_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Barb_(SS-220)) had a locomotive on its [battle flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Barb_(SS-220)#/media/File:USS_Barb_crew_1945_i03570.jpg). It had landed a shore party that laid a mine on the tracks. Operation Petticoat [We sunk a truck!](https://youtu.be/GpEcU0OEzhc?t=135) 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notches-on-his-gun-trope-any-background/846334.md?page=3)