# Note to all the other boiling frogs... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 23, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707 "2016-07-23T20:15:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/81 "2016-07-26T19:37:32Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Yes, she has. During this time, she clearly showed herself to be not qualified to occupy The White House–for example, FBI recently determined that Mrs. Clinton recklessly mishandled highly classified material, and then lied to investigators about it. Okay, you’ve repeated this point verbatim in several threads now. We get it: HRC practiced unsafe email, therefore is unqualified to be President. Do you actually have anything else to say? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/82 "2016-07-26T20:01:39Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Okay, here’s a couple of questions, one directly addressing this and another that’s only related: > > 1. If this is true, what will those same people say when Trump starts insulting world leaders, breaking up NATO, and generally putting his words into deeds? Will they generally approve? What happens if they do? My guess is that it’ll be more situation-dependent than anything else. If it’s in the context of “setting things straight” or reminding “lesser” nations of their status relative to the US, then it’ll be applauded. The foreign policy conception of the US in this crowd’s mind is one of not being a bully, but not taking shit from lesser nations either. However, if he was to insult one of the European/Canadian/Australian heads of government or state, I think they’d be horrified, as they’re considered peer nations, as well as our friends and allies, and to be respected. > [@Leaper](#): > > 1. If Trump is elected, the discontent that led to his election will, I think, be addressed one way or another. But if Clinton wins, that discontent is still there. How will it manifest itself in 2020 and otherwise? Straight out Hitler, not just a wannabe? That’s a good question. I have a gut feeling that regardless of who’s in the White House, that crowd will be disappointed. If Trump, because there’s really not too much he can personally do to “Make America Great Again” without wide Congressional backing, even if it’s shown that America really is not “Great”, and if Clinton, because she says that America is already Great, which is at odds with these people’s perception. That, I think is the Faustian bargain Trump’s made- he’s stirred up all this fermenting discontent, and is riding that wave into the election, but he doesn’t really have a way to satisfy them once he’s in office, assuming he gets elected. I suppose he’s planning to hand-wave, lie, and insult anyone who suggests he’s not doing what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/83 "2016-07-26T20:18:52Z")
I’m guessing Trump will continue to do what he’s already done up to this point, which is to be clever and smart and devious and hard-working and effective and to routinely pull off one thing after another that everyone else says he can’t possibly do. The rub is, what will those things be? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/84 "2016-07-26T20:22:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m guessing Trump will continue to do what he’s already done up to this point, which is to be clever and smart and devious and hard-working and effective and to routinely pull off one thing after another that everyone else says he can’t possibly do. > > The rub is, what will those things be? Wrong, that’s what. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/85 "2016-07-26T20:30:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That, I think is the Faustian bargain Trump’s made- he’s stirred up all this fermenting discontent, and is riding that wave into the election, but he doesn’t really have a way to satisfy them once he’s in office, assuming he gets elected. And other than being a much nicer guy, and a Democrat of sorts, you can say exactly the same thing about Sanders. The difference being that Sanders would have been Jimmy Carter’s political heir, while Trump is closer to being Hitler’s… and I do not use that comparison lightly. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/86 "2016-07-26T20:30:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m guessing Trump will continue to do what he’s already done up to this point, which is to be clever and smart and devious and hard-working and effective and to routinely pull off one thing after another that everyone else says he can’t possibly do. > > The rub is, what will those things be? I’m consistently amazed at your ability to write— with actual words arranged into perfectly constructed sentences, using proper English grammar, spelling and punctuation— complete gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/87 "2016-07-26T20:39:06Z")
There are none so blind as those who will not see. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/88 "2016-07-26T20:51:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There are none so blind as those who will not see. And piano tuners. You went eight years a (missed) heartbeat from President Quayle. It’ll turn out alright in the end… ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/89 "2016-07-26T20:52:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m guessing Trump will continue to do what he’s already done up to this point, which is to be clever and smart and devious and hard-working and effective and to routinely pull off one thing after another that everyone else says he can’t possibly do. If Trump is all those first fine things, why does it make the last an accomplishment? Surely if someone is full of great and fine qualities, their success should be, to someone who considers them to have those qualities, a mere trifle? It seems sort of like giving Superman credit for flying. For Superman, that’s not a great feat. On the other hand, Jimmy Olsen flying would be an impressive thing of note. It also magnifies mistakes. If Jimmy Olsen flies into a tree, well hey, he was flying, so that’s overlookable. If Superman flies into a tree, something must be seriously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/90 "2016-07-26T20:55:58Z")
> [@bobruisk](#): > > Yes, she has. During this time, she clearly showed herself to be not qualified to occupy The White House–for example, FBI recently determined that Mrs. Clinton recklessly mishandled highly classified material, and then lied to investigators about it. > > Yes, if you or I could come up with policy ideas that million upon millions of people across America support, and then secure the major’s party nomination, we both could be equally qualified. > Have you fulfilled these requirements? Trump’s casino business went into bankruptcy five times. Unqualified. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/91 "2016-07-26T21:29:37Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Trump’s casino business went into bankruptcy five times. > > Unqualified. Yes, out of the hundreds of businesses Trump has owned or had an interest in, his casinos were taken into bankruptcy five times. You may not have noticed, but the casino business tanked for everyone in Atlantic City at that time. Trump operated his casinos very well and very profitably until then. People don’t take businesses into bankruptcy when they’re making money. So obviously his casinos were losing money. What would you have had him do, keep operating at a loss until the sheriff comes to padlock the doors? How would that have benefitted his bondholders? Instead, he filed bankruptcies that allowed his creditors to take control of the casinos and attempt to turn them around, and if not, still to come out with more than they’d have had if he’d continued to operate them until the bitter end. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/92 "2016-07-26T21:32:43Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > If Trump is all those first fine things, why does it make the last an accomplishment? Surely if someone is full of great and fine qualities, their success should be, to someone who considers them to have those qualities, a mere trifle? > > It seems sort of like giving Superman credit for flying. For Superman, that’s not a great feat. On the other hand, Jimmy Olsen flying would be an impressive thing of note. It also magnifies mistakes. If Jimmy Olsen flies into a tree, well hey, he was flying, so that’s overlookable. If Superman flies into a tree, something must be seriously wrong. It’s an achievement because Trump has a proven ability to see how to accomplish things that virtually everyone else thinks impossible, and the ability to follow through and get them done. Which to me means that unlike **bump** implied, he will not find himself flailing about impotently once in office, blaming anyone and everyone for his inability to follow through on his promises. My belief is that he will be extraordinarily effective at getting done the things he wants to get done. The thing about Trump - and I’ve said this all along - is that he’s rarely doing what he appears to be doing. He’s usually operating about five levels above what everybody else sees and is pursuing goals that no one else knows about. It’s my opinion that Trump is fomenting and manipulating the discontent that many Americans feel so as to get himself elected, and in so doing to get himself into position to accomplish the goals he really wants to accomplish. But as I also said, the rub is that none of us knows what those goals really are. So while Trump may in fact not follow through on many of his promises to the discontented masses, it won’t be because he’s incapable but because he never intended to follow through on them in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/93 "2016-07-26T21:46:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My belief is that he will be extraordinarily effective at getting done the things he wants to get done. Because the things he wants to get done are strictly about increasing his own wealth and notoriety, I completely agree with you that a President Trump would be extraordinarily effective at getting that done. The problem, as far as the rest of the country is concerned, is that it wouldn’t accomplish jack shit for all us mere citizens whom he’s supposed to be serving. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/94 "2016-07-26T21:49:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s an achievement because Trump has a proven ability to see how to accomplish things that virtually everyone else thinks impossible, and the ability to follow through and get them done. But, like I said, if you believe Trump is clever and smart and devious etc., isn’t this a given? Or at least, expected? Hence my Superman analogy; if Superman flies above Metropolis, that isn’t an achievement, that’s just something Superman does; it’s easy for him. If Trump is clever and smart and devious and so on, why is it an accomplishment to “see how to accomplish things… and get them done”? It makes no sense to go both ways. You can’t give Superman credit both for being super and for flying. If he wasn’t super, then flying is an incredible feat. If he’s super, flying is no big deal. Put another way, if an incredible team of the best athletes in the world wins a championship, that’s nice, but we expect that level of performance from them. If a terrible team of underdog no-hopers wins a championship, now that right there would be an accomplishment. And we can even flip the situation; if the incredible team gets to the championship game and loses, that can be seen as a great disappointment. Whereas for the terrible team, just getting to that game in the first place is often seen as a success. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/95 "2016-07-26T21:53:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Because the things he wants to get done are strictly about increasing his own wealth and notoriety… You don’t know his true goals any more than the rest of us do. But I really doubt he’s going through all this just to make more money and become more widely known. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/96 "2016-07-26T22:00:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You don’t know his true goals any more than the rest of us do. But I really doubt he’s going through all this just to make more money and become more widely known. You really think there might be something “deep” about this candidacy? You are giving him a lot of credit. And that’s not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/97 "2016-07-26T22:06:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s an achievement because Trump has a proven ability to see how to accomplish things that virtually everyone else thinks impossible, and the ability to follow through and get them done. Holy cow, no he hasn’t and no he doesn’t do things that people think are impossible. No one thought it was “impossible” for him get the nomination like it’s “impossible” to find a unicorn horn, FFS. And that’s the only thing you can point to as evidence to back up your statement, after all. What a ludicrous assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/98 "2016-07-26T22:09:43Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But, like I said, if you believe Trump is clever and smart and devious etc., isn’t this a given? Or at least, expected? Hence my Superman analogy; if Superman flies above Metropolis, that isn’t an achievement, that’s just something Superman does; it’s easy for him. If Trump is clever and smart and devious and so on, why is it an accomplishment to “see how to accomplish things… and get them done”? > > It makes no sense to go both ways. You can’t give Superman credit both for being super and for flying. If he wasn’t super, then flying is an incredible feat. If he’s super, flying is no big deal. Put another way, if an incredible team of the best athletes in the world wins a championship, that’s nice, but we expect that level of performance from them. If a terrible team of underdog no-hopers wins a championship, now that right there would be an accomplishment. And we can even flip the situation; if the incredible team gets to the championship game and loses, that can be seen as a great disappointment. Whereas for the terrible team, just getting to that game in the first place is often seen as a success. You first have to win championships to be considered the incredible team you refer to, but to use your own analogy Trump started out a year ago exactly as an ‘underdog no-hoper’ and look what he’s accomplished. He came in as an inexperienced non-politician and blew 15 seasoned politicos out of the water, played the press like violins, hardly spent any money, overcame numerous concerted attempts by the Republican establishment to deny him the nomination, and has now found himself the Republican nominee for president with ever increasing poll numbers over Hillary Clinton. And yet to this day many people are unwilling to give him credit for any of these accomplishments. They say he lucked into it, or he’s only where he is because of angry old white guys, or because a lot people in the U.S. want to go back to the racism of the 50s, etc., etc. All of which is b.s. So it’s more like he’s Superman in certain ways but people don’t know it yet. They’re finding it out though. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/99 "2016-07-26T22:18:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > They say he lucked into it, or he’s only where he is because of angry old white guys, or because a lot people in the U.S. want to go back to the racism of the 50s, etc., etc. Sounds pretty accurate so far. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So it’s more like he’s Superman in certain ways but people don’t know it yet. Oh my goodness gracious. You _do_ realize that the only chance you have to sell this ‘Trump is a mastermind/Superman’ theory is with _people who aren’t paying any attention whatsoever_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707/100 "2016-07-26T22:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You first have to win championships to be considered the incredible team you refer to, but to use your own analogy Trump started out a year ago exactly as an ‘underdog no-hoper’ and look what he’s accomplished. He came in as an inexperienced non-politician and blew 15 seasoned politicos out of the water, played the press like violins, hardly spent any money, overcame numerous concerted attempts by the Republican establishment to deny him the nomination, and has now found himself the Republican nominee for president with ever increasing poll numbers over Hillary Clinton. And yet to this day many people are unwilling to give him credit for any of these accomplishments. They say he lucked into it, or he’s only where he is because of angry old white guys, or because a lot people in the U.S. want to go back to the racism of the 50s, etc., etc. All of which is b.s. So it’s more like he’s Superman in certain ways but people don’t know it yet. They’re finding it out though. [/QUOTE] He didn’t luck into it, he successfully sold snake oil to a substantial portion of the electorate who were willing to buy in the first place, which is basically what he’s been doing for 50 years. Doesn’t make him an admirable human being in any way, shape, or form, nor does it make him a good (let alone the best) candidate for President. But please, continue to tell us how deluded and misplacedly confident in the outcome we are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-all-the-other-boiling-frogs/760707.md?page=6)