# Note to the news media: It's not a fucking miracle (miner related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355 "2006-01-04T05:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/41 "2006-01-04T15:29:06Z")
My favorite is when religious folks try to comfort people with “It’s all part of God’s plan.” Relatives tried that with me when I was going through a very bad time, and although I appreciated their intent, all it made me think was “So what? I’m supposed to feel better thinking that all this shit was planned? That it’s part of some big list God has, labeled ‘nasty shit to happen to Revtim’? And that the latest shit might not be last of the shit, but in fact just the beginning of the list?” Even within the context of religious belief I cannot imaging how that would comfort anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/42 "2006-01-04T15:37:11Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Well, yeah. From the OP: > > A huge chunk of the First Amendment concerns freedom of religion. And I’d just as soon leave alone religious people who are grieving, not tell them to fuck off. > > Just me, though, and my live and let live attitude. When I wrote the OP those people were celebrating, not grieving so it isn’t fair to say I told grieving people to fuck off. I also never said or suggested that anyone should have their religious freedoms taken away from them. I was making a comment primarily on the stupidity of the news media (who are supposed to be reporting objective facts) engaging in superstitious prattle about “miracles” instead of praising the actual human beings who did the work. Just because people have a right to free speech doesn’t mean I don’t also have a right to say their speech is stupid. This story has taken an ugly turn since I wrote this OP last night. At the time I wrote it, everyone thought the miners were alive and were celebrating. I never would have written an OP like that if I had known that story was false. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/43 "2006-01-04T15:46:23Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > A huge chunk of the First Amendment concerns freedom of religion. I’m sorry, I missed the part where **DtC** advocated passing a law to prevent this. This is stupid, even coming from you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/44 "2006-01-04T15:49:14Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Had the rescue been successful I’m sure you would agree that it would have been an “outstanding accomplishment”. Indeed, I called it as much in my OP. But it would have been an outstanding _human_ accomplishment. Calling it a “miracle” obscures that fact. > [@](#): > > So you may choose to believe that the media is corrupted by religious people or you may choose to believe that a successful rescue would have been an outstanding accmplishment. False dichotomy. Both statements can be true. I don’t actally think the news media is infested with religious nutters, though (except for Fox News). I just think they’re packaging the story in a way they think it will sell better. They’re _pandering_ to religious sentiment. I don’t think they feel it very sincerely themselves (except for maybe Rita Crosby, who was practically witnessing on camera last night). > [@](#): > > I do think you would agree with me that it is ironic that a successful rescue by the families gets attributed to God, while the trajedy gets attributed to mine management That was my point exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/45 "2006-01-04T15:54:14Z")
**Askia.** Reflecting further, my previous post was in bad taste even for me. Apologies to any who may have been offended. It was _miraculous_ one miner survived a cave-in that killed 12 others. Kudos to the dedicated rescuers who got the miner out of there. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/46 "2006-01-04T15:55:54Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > When a whole town’s faith turns out to be insufficient to bring about a miracle, it’s not surprising that this could cause some people to question their belief in God. It is difficult to accept a tragedy as being a part of God’s will when that tragedy happens to you. I agree, but the “we had a miracle and then it was taken away” part is simply bizarre sounding. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/47 "2006-01-04T16:00:22Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > My favorite is when religious folks try to comfort people with “It’s all part of God’s plan.” Relatives tried that with me when I was going through a very bad time, and although I appreciated their intent, all it made me think was “So what? I’m supposed to feel better thinking that all this shit was planned? That it’s part of some big list God has, labeled ‘nasty shit to happen to Revtim’? And that the latest shit might not be last of the shit, but in fact just the beginning of the list?” Even within the context of religious belief I cannot imaging how that would comfort anybody. As a Christian I’m not sure when most of my fellow Christians forgot about the concept of “free will.” We have it, and it has consequences. It was human free will that established that mine, and human free will that allowed it to be a place with numerous safety violations that ultimately culminated in a fatal disaster. I remember when my grandfather died of lung cancer after a life of heavy smoking (which he continued while trying to treat the disease) and someone had the ignorance to mention the “god’s plan” shit around me at the wake. I tersely replied, “God didn’t make him a smoker.” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/48 "2006-01-04T16:05:03Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Well, yeah. From the OP: > A huge chunk of the First Amendment concerns freedom of religion. That is … complete bullshit. Nobody even came close to suggesting the government ought to prevent the media from reporting “miracles.” They said it’s foolish and counterproductive. Would you all please stop it, every time someone criticizes what someone else has to say, saying “They have the right to say that”? They have the right to paint their house puce, as well, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Boggette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@Boggette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boggette)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/49 "2006-01-04T16:09:03Z")
Along the same lines… I was watching a CNN show and there’s a guy saying that “so-in-so ‘didn’t deserve’ this! He’s a good man! He didn’t deserve to have this happen to him.” Haven’t these people gotten it through their heads yet that SHIT HAPPENS? Bad stuff happens to good people. And good stuff happens to bad people. Where do people get the belief that if you’re good, nothing bad should ever happen to you!??? WTF!? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/50 "2006-01-04T16:10:57Z")
The “God’s Plan” or “God’s Will” sentiment was a partiuclar bane of a Methodist minister I used to know. He felt it was one of the most hurtful things you could say to a grieving person, to make them feel that God chose them to suffer. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/51 "2006-01-04T16:23:35Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I remember when my grandfather died of lung cancer after a life of heavy smoking (which he continued while trying to treat the disease) and someone had the ignorance to mention the “god’s plan” shit around me at the wake. I tersely replied, “God didn’t make him a smoker.” Not to set off a shitstorm here, but why didn’t god make him a smoker? Didn’t he (her, it, whatever) make tobacco leaves, paper, humans, lungs, nicotine, etc etc? ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/52 "2006-01-04T17:06:29Z")
As a journalist, I’d like to address the sentiment that the media went with rumors instead of waiting for the facts. As far as I can tell, at 11 p.m. last night, “12 miners alive” was the fact coming from the governor and the CEO of the mining company. The reporters gathered by the families and the mine had officials telling them the miners were alive and no one telling them otherwise. What final authority could they have waited for? Most metro newspapers have a press deadline around 10 or 11 for their first edition, so as soon as they got word on the wire service that the miners were alive, they had to rush to redesign their front pages. Some newspapers, like the Kansas City Star, managed to switch out the stories on later deadlines ([See here](http://www.newsdesigner.com/blog/)). It’s an editor’s worst nightmare to run a story at the last minute that turns out to be wrong, but everyone at those newspapers thought they were running with good information. As far as the “miracle” thing goes, it’s an overused cliche that I, and many copy editors, think should be banned from newspapers, regardless of how miraculous a situation may appear. (When I say banned, of course, I mean in the stylebooks, not in the courthouses.) Too many close calls and near-tragedies get labeled “miracles” in newspapers. As for the broadcasters holding up newspapers this morning and talking about how they screwed up: It may be my naivete, but I’m not sure it’s appropriate to use horrific deaths to say “nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah boo-boo.” But like I said, I’m new at this, and maybe I’m just not cutout for the fast-paced world that is broadcast journalism. I guess I’ll stick to print. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/53 "2006-01-04T17:09:10Z")
> [@FyreFiend](#): > > Because he never chips in for beer and always bogarts the weed > 😉 Are you drinkin’ with me, Jesus? I can’t see you very clear. I know you can walk on water, But can you walk on this much beer? 😃 (from “Drinkin’ With Jesus”, by Jello Biafra & Mojo Nixon) ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/54 "2006-01-04T17:20:08Z")
The officials knew that the reports ov 12 living were incorrect after 20 minutes. I think they should have told the families immediately. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/55 "2006-01-04T17:31:18Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > The “God’s Plan” or “God’s Will” sentiment was a partiuclar bane of a Methodist minister I used to know. He felt it was one of the most hurtful things you could say to a grieving person, to make them feel that God chose them to suffer. But the whole point of “it’s God’s will” is meant to be consoling. You can comfort youself with the idea that God has some great master plan and yes, it hurts right now, but ultimately some greater good will come of this sacrifice. It seems to me that’s the whole point of religion, to make sense of what seems to be capricious and random events. I’m not a Christian or even “spiritual” (whatever the heck that means) but I can see how the ability to say “it’s God’s will” and _believe_ could be enormously comforting. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/56 "2006-01-04T17:31:36Z")
I agree. I’m cursing quite profusely under my breath right now. You see, this morning I was hearing on the news that it took everything from 20 minutes to three hours before word got out that there was only one survivor. I went out to CNN’s website and I saw the chronology. The president of the mining company _did_ learn there was only one survivor after 20 minutes, but it was over 2 hours before the families were told He didn’t want to interrupt their celebration. I’d swear, but I don’t have language strong enough to cover what I feel. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/57 "2006-01-04T18:00:24Z")
The USAToday in the newspaper machine outside my office building has the huge headline “12 Miners Found Alive” or something like that. How sad to read that and know it was not to be. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/58 "2006-01-04T18:30:58Z")
This is what happens when you don’t give Jesus full credit. He takes his miracle back. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/59 "2006-01-04T18:49:29Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > The president of the mining company _did_ learn there was only one survivor after 20 minutes, but it was over 2 hours before the families were told He didn’t want to interrupt their celebration. I’d swear, but I don’t have language strong enough to cover what I feel. > > CJ From the CNN story: > [@](#): > > Hatfield said he knew within 20 minutes that an error had been made and that not all 12 were alive, but said he did not inform jubilant family members. > > “We couldn’t correct the information without knowing more about it,” he told reporters. “Let’s put this in perspective – who do we tell not to celebrate? All I knew is, there weren’t 12 people that were alive. It was somewhere between 12 and zero.” I sort of understand his situation. He didn’t want to say, “No, they’re all dead,” and then potentially have to retract it by saying, “No, only five are dead,” or “No, three made it.” Speaking up before he knew the whole story would have been just as devestating. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355/60 "2006-01-04T18:54:20Z")
Then he should have said “We really aren’t sure of anything right now.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/note-to-the-news-media-its-not-a-fucking-miracle-miner-related/338355.md?page=4)