# NotfooledbyW, You Colossal Clod

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [February 10, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975 "2014-02-10T14:55:24Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 8

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/141 "2014-02-17T22:19:32Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Oh, and I got a bit tripped up by his crappy coding. He didn’t actually say “it was not a coup”, that was someone else he quoted (if you can call his inability to code, quoting). But once again, he endorsed that view.

He did say he didn’t view it as a coup, along with that the coup was an expression of democracy, along with a bunch of other contradictory crap. I don’t think it was the coding.

What he thinks cannot be expressed clearly. You can’t polish a turd.

Regards,  
Shodan

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/142 "2014-02-17T22:20:41Z")

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wrong thread

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/143 "2014-02-20T03:14:27Z")

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I think I figured him out. He’s like that guy in _Memento_. He can’t remember anything that happened more than 5 minutes ago. That explains why he keeps making the same stupid argument over and over again, no matter how many times he’s proven wrong. Why he asks for cites that have already been given, proposes hypothetical that have already been shown to be invalid.

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**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/144 "2014-02-21T09:22:33Z")

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John Mace wrote on 02-01-2014 at 09:42 PM, "As much as I feel for the Egyptian people, and wish them the very best, the idea that Morsi, a member of THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, wasn’t going to tilt the country in an Islamist direction is, well, laughable. **I don’t care what he said during the election.** It was THE MUSLIM FREAKIN’ BROTHERHOOD!!! \<“Cite”

An Islamist direction is not desired by tens of millions of Egyptians. An Islamist direction is not in the direction toward the kind of democratic representative government with human rights protections known in America as freedom of religion, that those tens of millions rose up against Mubarak in the first revolution about three years ago were seeking.

That is one aspect of John Mace’s ignorant position on Egypt’s two revolutions that those of you here being a sympathetic idiot to him would most likely be unable to get to just how ignorant and incoherent John Mace’s arguments truly are. A majority of idiots is made up of individual idiots… and there is nothing much that can be done about that.

That is why Mace focuses so much on his bullshit claims about what HE THINKS my argument are. His arguments lack any kind of rationality, factual assessment of things or clear thinking so they are not defendable in the normal ways.  
This following exchange also helps to define Mace’s ignorance on the whole subject of the revolutionary events taking place in Egypt the past few years…

The comparison I was making in this exchange was that in our history here in the USA ‘women and males without property’ did not have the right to vote from the early days of our ‘setting upon the path’ to the great democracy we have now. You know … . we have now since women have acquired the right to vote in our democratic Federal elections for such things as President and Senators and Representatives.

> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by NotfooledbyW (Post 17103672) Not just slaves… It was women and males without property… The comparison is if it was good enough for our democracy … why can’t Islamists Extremists Organizations be restricted from voting. The continuation of my point is that the victors of the rebellion gets to decide how to set up the transition to the new legal political order. \<“Cite”
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > (-John Mace 02-13-2014 09:53 PM) Right. But that’s not democracy. Why do you hate democracy? \<“Cite”

John Maces’s most ignorant argument here means that if it \*\*is not democracy \*\*in Egypt right now to limit or impede the right to vote of some citizens … then it could not have been democracy in the USA for all those years in America until all women and unpropertied males attained the right to vote.

I do not expect the ignorant and foolish onlookers and flame throwers on this thread to be able to recognize the significance of Mace’s thoughtless ranting on the subject of the revolution in Egypt. I see no desire on their part to care about such things.

It took our great nation 130 years to get democracy probably as right is it can be gotten… But if one argues that Egypt should be given more than one year to get it right -with respect to granting all the right to vote- John Mace need not come up with asshole questions to ask ‘why do you hate democracy’. That is not debating - that is being an asshole.  
But if I am wrong… that thread is open… and I will be quite happy to continue explaining it to you all in a civil and rational way worthy of a forum named 'great debates.

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**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/145 "2014-02-21T09:29:53Z")

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> [@Shodan](#):
>
> … along with that the coup was an expression of democracy

Was the military coup of Mubarak’s regime and expression of democracy?

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**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/146 "2014-02-21T13:37:51Z")

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> [@NotfooledbyW](#):
>
> I do not expect the ignorant and foolish onlookers and flame throwers on this thread to be able to recognize the significance of Mace’s thoughtless ranting on the subject of the revolution in Egypt.

I’m sorry but I don’t recognize the significance. Can you explain how it relates to current events in Ukraine?

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/147 "2014-02-21T14:20:09Z")

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> [@NotfooledbyW](#):
>
> Was the military coup of Mubarak’s regime and expression of democracy?

What military coup?

Regards,  
Shodan

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**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/148 "2014-02-21T15:50:37Z")

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The one that took control of the government and arranged a prompt democratic election.

Don’t pay much attention to the world around you, do you?

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/149 "2014-02-21T16:09:13Z")

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> [@NotfooledbyW](#):
>
> But if I am wrong… that thread is open… and I will be quite happy to continue explaining it to you all in a civil and rational way worthy of a forum named 'great debates.

I’m sure people will be rushing into that thread by the hundreds in order to get educumated by you.

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**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/150 "2014-02-21T16:32:34Z")

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> [@NotfooledbyW](#):
>
> … and I will be quite happy to continue explaining it to you all in a civil and rational way worthy of a forum named 'great debates.

If you want your posts to be worthy of GD, then one simple thing you can do is start quoting properly. In the case of quoting off-board sources, it’s difficult to tease out your own words from those you are quoting. In the case of quoting other posters, your style obfuscates and removes from context their words. In both cases, clarity suffers, and confusion and misunderstandings are encouraged.

It’s not difficult to quote properly. Really, it isn’t. The fact that you refuse to do so indicates that you desire obfuscation, confusion, and misunderstanding. Maybe that’s all you’ve got.

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**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/151 "2014-02-21T16:33:51Z")

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> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> The one that took control of the government and arranged a prompt democratic election.
> 
> Don’t pay much attention to the world around you, do you?

I was also unaware that Mubarak’s regime involved any military coup. Rigged elections, yes, but not a coup (he originally was named vice-President by Sadat and assumed the Presidency after Sadat’s assassination).

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**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/152 "2014-02-21T16:45:10Z")

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Depends on what you mean by coup. He had the support of the military, as a former member himself and one who got them what they wanted. They still dropped it when it became clear he was gone - people in the military are still people, after all. The guy who was chosen in the election that followed was pretty much against democracy after that, and the military overthrew him at that point.

**Shodan** , however, is stuck on military=authoritarian, elected=democratic, even to the point of denouncing the stupidity of anyone who tries to show him it isn’t always that simple. So let’s just keep on “regarding” him.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/153 "2014-02-21T17:56:57Z")

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> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Depends on what you mean by coup. He had the support of the military, as a former member himself and one who got them what they wanted. They still dropped it when it became clear he was gone - people in the military are still people, after all. The guy who was chosen in the election that followed was pretty much against democracy after that, and the military overthrew him at that point.
> 
> **Shodan** , however, is stuck on military=authoritarian, elected=democratic, even to the point of denouncing the stupidity of anyone who tries to show him it isn’t always that simple. So let’s just keep on “regarding” him.

Morsi was ousted by a coup. That’s clear by any rational definition of “coup”.

With Mubarak it wasn’t quite so cut and dry. The military didn’t force him out (as they did with Morsi). Mubarak resigned, and left control of the country to the “Supreme Council” or whatever it is they call it. Now, if you want to argue that the military pressured Mubarak to resign (behind the scenes), I suppose that’s possible, but you’d have to produce some evidence of that, and I’m not aware that there is any good evidence out there.

A better “coup” argument can be made for later that year when the courts dissolved parliament and the military assumed full authority over the legislative branch. But by then, Mubarak had been out of power for months.

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/154 "2014-02-21T18:14:45Z")

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I’m sorry, but everyone is missing my point, which is that **NotfooledbyW** cannot make up his alleged mind as to what he is saying at any given point - a coup is/isn’t a coup, democracy is where the will of the majority is overturned by the military.

It was a mistake to post it. I am being sucked into the morass of stupid that represents his posting history. I’ve never seen a poster who contradicts himself with such blitheness, and ignores refutation with such determined dumb. Now he is claiming that an opinion he posted on whether the Egyptian military can overthrow the government was not an opinion on whether the Egyptian military can overthrow the government.

I am being taught the truth of the adage “never argue with an idiot - he will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience”.

Regards,  
Shodan

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**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/155 "2014-02-21T19:13:15Z")

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And _you’re_ missing almost _everyone else’s_ point, which is that you’re a simpleton.

Laughter,  
ElvisL1ves

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**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/156 "2014-02-21T20:15:49Z")

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> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> And _you’re_ missing almost _everyone else’s_ point, which is that you’re a simpleton.
> 
> Laughter,  
> ElvisL1ves

That you have such a hard-on for chasing **Shodan** around announcing to the world how much you dislike him doesn’t mean everyone else does. I’d much rather be stuck on a desert island with him than with you were I forced to choose between the two, and politically my views are probably far closer to yours than to his. **NFBW** is a colossal moron. It’s not very hard to figure out.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/157 "2014-02-21T21:19:35Z")

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I don’t often agree with **Shodan** , but as has been noted by a few of us, **FooledByAlmostEveryone** has the rare (perhaps “special” is a better word) ability to unite people across the political spectrum due to his pig headedness, strange views of political issues, and often contradictory postings. Not to mention the frustration of communicating with someone who butchers the English language (although claiming to be a native speaker) and who can’t figure out how the quote function works.

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/158 "2014-02-21T21:26:47Z")

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That goes to something I mentioned before - we don’t have to agree, but for heaven’s sake we can at least talk rationally. Or at least some of us can.

[QUOTE=Dissonance]  
NFBW is a colossal moron. It’s not very hard to figure out.  
[/QUOTE]

I am sure even **Elvisl1ves** recognizes that. What he doesn’t recognize is how revealing it is that he finds **NotfooledbyW** to be so much of a kindred spirit.

Regards,  
Shodan

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**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/159 "2014-02-21T21:47:19Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I don’t often agree with **Shodan** , but as has been noted by a few of us, **FooledByAlmostEveryone** has the rare (perhaps “special” is a better word) ability to unite people across the political spectrum due to his pig headedness, strange views of political issues, and often contradictory postings. Not to mention the frustration of communicating with someone who butchers the English language (although claiming to be a native speaker) and who can’t figure out how the quote function works.

This is from the Egyptian Thread. NfbW’s talking about the coup quote again, but I think his last sentence is telling:

> [@Is civil war in Egypt averted? 90% yes for new Constitution.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-civil-war-in-egypt-averted-90-yes-for-new-constitution/679071/927):
>
> I wonder if this is Human Action’s idea of me being proven wrong about something and accept the verdicts of unreasonable forum members that I’m wrong.

I think the take-home message is that if you disagree with something he has said, actually point out a contradiction that he has made, or say he’s mistaken–you’re the unreasonable forum member in his mind.

Regardless of political leanings, I think most people here would say he’s the one who isn’t very reasonable.

But apparently it’s all our fault because we can’t “properly understand” his “context”.

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notfooledbyw-you-colossal-clod/680975/160 "2014-02-22T00:11:09Z")

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> [@dasmoocher](#):
>
> This is from the Egyptian Thread. NfbW’s talking about the coup quote again, but I think his last sentence is telling:
> 
> I think the take-home message is that if you disagree with something he has said, actually point out a contradiction that he has made, or say he’s mistaken–you’re the unreasonable forum member in his mind.

Yep. Did you ever notice the habit he has of responding to the rare instances when someone posts something in agreement with him: _Thanks for your reasoned and intelligent post._ You may not have noticed this because the instances of anyone agreeing with him are few and far between.

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