# Notorious movies: those that deserve the rep, and those that don't **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 14, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724 "2006-08-14T21:03:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/21 "2006-08-16T00:03:55Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] Pedro loses, and he doesn’t care. [/QUOTE] Actually, he wins thanks to Napoleons incredible dance moves. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/22 "2006-08-16T00:16:07Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] So, somebody tell me if **Last Tango in Paris** is worth Netflixing? [/QUOTE] I watched it last year and was underwhelmed. I went into it understanding that the taboo sexuality of 1972 was going to be tame by 2005 standards. It wasn’t that. It was just that the movie was slow moving in that 1970s way (think _Taxi Driver_), but didn’t really offer much good character development as a payoff for the unhurried pace. Here are a few notorious movies that, to me at least, have not aged well: _The Last Temptation of Christ Natural Born Killers Heavy Metal Basic Instinct_ the entire first wave of “slasher” horror movies (e.g. _Friday the 13th_) most of John Waters’ early output, especially his collaborations with Divine ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/23 "2006-08-16T00:17:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I would like to hear a Doper’s review of Salo I’ve seen _Salo_. It’s not as disturbing as I’d feared given its reputation - bad things happen in it yes, but there is a relative restraint in play compared to similar fare. But then again, I’ve seen most of the films mentioned here so I guess I’m pretty seasoned. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/24 "2006-08-16T14:17:17Z")
How about **In the Realm of the Senses**? Keep in mind that I loathed **The Pillow Book**. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/25 "2006-08-16T14:38:01Z")
What about **Eraserhead**? I’ve always heard it was terribly distrubing. So much so, that I was curious – but not enough to ever seek it out. Worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/26 "2006-08-16T14:47:59Z")
I haven’t seen **The Pillow Book** , so I don’t know if **In the Realm of the Senses** will be your cup of tea. It’s slow-paced, and far less erotic than a movie aiming at eroticism. However, the whole thing feels natural and uncontrived, without anything that looks like it was added just to be weird, as Peter Greenaway has a tendency to do. The scenes meant to shock are still pretty out there, and as far as I know it’s a relatively accurate portrayal of the actual events. Verdict: not earth-shattering or gut-wrenching, but definitely not boring or pretentious. Recommended. ---
**Author:** ![Stentor\_2.5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stentor\_2.5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stentor_2.5)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/27 "2006-08-16T14:59:39Z")
[Thriller: En Grym Film](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072285/) - I personally found it blood curdling. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/28 "2006-08-16T15:24:24Z")
[QUOTE=Ellen Cherry] What about **Eraserhead**? I’ve always heard it was terribly distrubing. So much so, that I was curious – but not enough to ever seek it out. Worth it? [/QUOTE] Oh. Yes. I’m undecided about David Cronenberg’s William S. Burroughs’ NAKED LUNCH or VIDEODROME tho. Still pretty worth it, but not as much as ERASERHEAD. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/29 "2006-08-16T15:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Oh. Yes. I’m undecided about David Cronenberg’s William S. Burroughs’ NAKED LUNCH or VIDEODROME tho. Still pretty worth it, but not as much as ERASERHEAD. [/QUOTE] Yeah, yeah, yeah but WHY?? What’s it about? What’s so disturbing? Will I want to bleach my brain. What? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/30 "2006-08-16T15:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] A few weeks ago, I watched **Napoleon Dynamite.** I don’t understand how this got to be a cult film. [/QUOTE] Um… “notorious” != “cult.” Maybe I should have been clearer with my intent. Just because something is offbeat, even extremely offbeat, and therefore adored by a small segment of the audience, doesn’t make it notorious. Cult, but not notorious: _Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!_ — _Blue Velvet_ — _Forbidden Zone_ — _Army of Darkness_ — _El Topo_ — _Repo Man_ Formerly notorious but eventually mainstreamed at least to some degree: _Dawn of the Dead_ — _Re-Animator_ — _Texas Chainsaw Massacre_ — _A Clockwork Orange_ — _Peeping Tom_ — _Kids_ Still notorious: _Bloodsucking Freaks_ — _Forced Entry_ — _Men Behind the Sun_ — _Legend of the Overfiend_ — _Untold Story_ — _Entrails of a Virgin_ For the purposes of this thread, I’m mostly interested in the last category: not so much movies that used to have a certain cachet (e.g. _Myra Breckenridge_) and have become passé, but movies around which the whispers still swirl. _Freaks_, named by **xizor** , is an excellent example, not least because it’s more than seventy-five years old and still has an impact. Also worth discussing, I think, is stuff like _Fritz the Cat_, which today is marginal but whose legend was so pervasive in its time that a whiff of notoriety still lingers. _Naked Lunch_, I think, doesn’t really qualify; it’s weird, but it’s not, y’know, _notorious._ I hope the distinction is clear. Just trying to narrow the intent of my OP. Thanks for the contributions so far, and please continue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/31 "2006-08-16T15:43:43Z")
**Showgirls** - It’s got tons of sex, tons of nudity, it’s about Vegas nightlife, it stars Gina Gershon, a former teen idol, and yet it has not one redemable attribute. It’s so bad I’m quite convinced it oozes carcinogens off the screen. I mean relentlessly, aggressively, assaultingly bad. Every bad, awful thing you’ve heard about it? It’s utterly true. You just can’t imagine until you see it. With unyieldingly fetid dialogue, like “It must be weird, not having anybody cum on you”, or “I used to love dog chow too”, you simply cannot go right with colostomy bag of a flick. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/32 "2006-08-16T16:05:56Z")
People often cite **Requiem For A Dream** as one of the bleakest, most depressing movies they’ve seen. It definitely deserves that rep. It’s the story of how drug addiction destroys four people in different ways. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/33 "2006-08-16T16:12:07Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] **Showgirls** - It’s got tons of sex, tons of nudity, it’s about Vegas nightlife, it stars Gina Gershon, a former teen idol, and yet it has not one redemable attribute. It’s so bad I’m quite convinced it oozes carcinogens off the screen. I mean relentlessly, aggressively, assaultingly bad. Every bad, awful thing you’ve heard about it? It’s utterly true. You just can’t imagine until you see it. With unyieldingly fetid dialogue, like “It must be weird, not having anybody cum on you”, or “I used to love dog chow too”, you simply cannot go right with colostomy bag of a flick. [/QUOTE] Dude! :eek: You did _not_ just go there! :eek: :eek: Might as well have mentioned Cat Declawing and Circumcision too, while you’re at it. 😛 **Cervaise** - although I agree that Caligula is more boring that can be thought possible given the parameters, it is still worth watching for the “Yes, I have seen it and can tell you it’s bad”. (He _leaves the ring on_!!!) Everyone really needs to see it for themselves, so you shouldn’t tell them not to bother. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/34 "2006-08-16T16:14:04Z")
[QUOTE=Ellen Cherry] Yeah, yeah, yeah but WHY?? What’s it about? What’s so disturbing? Will I want to bleach my brain. What? [/QUOTE] One word: Baby. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/35 "2006-08-16T16:24:19Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] One word: Baby. [/QUOTE] Jennifer Grey is in it??? :_Shudder_: ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/36 "2006-08-16T16:34:16Z")
[QUOTE=Ellen Cherry] Yeah, yeah, yeah but WHY?? What’s it about? What’s so disturbing? Will I want to bleach my brain. What? [/QUOTE] It is not gory. It is not sexually explicit. There are a very few moments that are somewhat disgusting, but in a very non-realistic manner, and nowhere near on a par with much of the rest of this thread. It is simply very, very disturbing. Especially when viewed alone at 1:30 in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/37 "2006-08-16T17:34:38Z")
On Eraserhead, _I_ find it very disturbing but then again, I am a David Lynch fan. I’m pretty sure there are a lot of people who find his style to be an automatic turn-off (and I can certainly see why) – and I think these viewers are likely to think Eraserhead is a snoozefest. You kind of have to buy into the emotional language of the film before you would find it disturbing, IMHO. More details on the disturbing baby: So there’s this baby, only it looks nothing at all like a human baby. It’s like a lizard/puppet/E.T. looking thing. The baby is obviously sick and distressed (its body is covered in bandages) which is disturbing if you have gotten on board with the idea of it being a baby, because it has a lot of film time. The baby is so alarming to its mother that we see her grow more and more freaked out until she eventually abandons it. At the end of the film, the father takes the initiative to cut off the bandages which releases all of its innards, so then it’s like a baby puddle on the table, and so the father stabs it. The End. There could be some debate on whether the father thought he was helping or hurting it when he started cutting the bandages off. Picture of the baby here: [http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/02/lynch.html](http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/02/lynch.html) Interview with David Lynch about the baby, which I now find more disturbing than the actual baby in the film: [Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](http://www.geocities.com/~mikehartmann/ehbaby.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/38 "2006-08-16T18:23:43Z")
My God! I do not want to see this film, ever. Thanks so much, delphica, scotandrsn and Otto. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/39 "2006-08-16T20:12:05Z")
**The Brown Bunny** : Terrible. Vincent Gallo drives around endlessly, you listen to his bad music selection, and then Chloe Sevigny blows him. And really, that’s pretty much it. You watch like 45 minutes of shitty movie so that Gallo can get completely uninspired sloppy head from this unattractive chick. It doesn’t even qualify as acceptable porn. **Donnie Darko** : I still don’t get it. I tried, I really did. I was going to watch it again while stoned in the hopes that it would make more sense, but then Iron Chef America came on. Donnie Darko: profound? No. Thought-provoking? No. Entertaining? Not really. Deep? Not remotely. Yeah, the bunny’s name is Frank, hee hee, it’s like an alternate universe but they don’t say that because you’re supposed to figure it out, hee hee. Hurrr. ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724/40 "2006-08-16T20:12:21Z")
I’ve seen a lot of formerly notorious movies, apparently, but I’m not as current on the truly notorious. One director who may qualify: Lars von Trier. _Breaking the Waves_, _Dancer in the Dark_, _The Idiots_, _Dogville_ – all of them have reputations as wrenching emotional experiences. I don’t think any of them show any gore or contain imagery that’s hard to look at, but no one disputes that von Trier is a master at button-pushing. Whether or not that’s a good thing, well, I guess it depends on what your buttons do. Another candidate that still has some punch: _Deliverance_, or at least the “squeal like a pig” scene. On another note, did _The Blair Witch Project_ have one of the fastest notorious-to-passe transitions in cinema history? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notorious-movies-those-that-deserve-the-rep-and-those-that-dont/368724.md?page=3)