# Notre Dame on fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584 "2019-04-15T17:24:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/261 "2019-04-18T13:39:08Z")
That upper right picture especially reminds me of [corium](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Chernobyl_lava_flow.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/262 "2019-04-18T13:41:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > > Macron is apparently interested in having it done before the 2024 Olympics. The \*debate \*won’t be done by then. > > > > As for the “They’d never dare do that!” arguments, I’ll merely gesture, with a Gallic shrug, toward the glass pyramid in the Louvre courtyard. > > It would be _nice_ to be able to present the newly rebuilt cathedral to the world when it comes to town in summer 2024 (with perhaps a formal ceremony at Easter weekend that year). Someone was quoted in the paper here in the US saying that it will take ten to fifteen years, and that’s probably OK too, given the age of the building and the scope of the work. > > As for the Louvre pyramid, I M Pei’s design was hated locally when it was first suggested but of course now it’s accepted, even beloved. It’s an anachronism, but it works. I doubt even the original 12th-13th Century cathedral is all of one style, given that styles changed over that period. Another idea; a few years ago, the Washington Monument had to be closed to repair damage from an earthquake and the entire structure was covered in scaffolding. They wrapped the scaffolding in fabric and illuminated it and that itself was cool to look at (there’s a photo [here](https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/03/michael-graves-dies-a-shortlist-of-the-architect-s-greatest-works-photos.html)). So if it’s possible to get enough scaffolding, the under-repair building can be nice looking. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/263 "2019-04-18T22:25:46Z")
I’m waiting for the design ideas to roll in that have the reconstructed roof covered in solar panels, or perhaps a cell tower incorporated into the steeple. 🙂 > [@APB](#): > > Some of the molten lead flowed out through the gargoyles. [Several of them are now on display in the (excellent) cathedral museum in the Palais du Tau](https://traveltoeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/wpid-Photo-201403150817016.jpg). That’s so creepy and cool. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/264 "2019-04-19T01:40:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > All it takes is one linseed oil-soaked cotton rag to start a spontaneous fire, so given that one of the companies actively working on the day was an art restoration firm, that’s no doubt a probable line of investigation. Where in the roof would they be doing this? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/265 "2019-04-19T05:23:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Where in the roof would they be doing this? They were working on restoring the spire. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/266 "2019-04-19T05:32:57Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > That’s so creepy and cool. Yeah, it’s pretty metal. I’ll see myself out. I regret nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/267 "2019-04-19T06:05:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I for one doubt very much that it’s authentic, in the sense of really being part of the crown of thorns that Jesus wore. But that is almost beside the point. It’s part of the cathedral of Notre Dame, like the art work. I am glad it was saved because it is a relic of the Middle Ages. IYSWIM. I can’t vouch that it’s scientifically true, in fact I suspect nobody has taken a full inventory with weights and sizes, but we joke that if you put together all the bits and pieces of wood which claim to come from the Holy Cross, you’d be able to build at least five dozen crosses. There certainly were enough Spears of Roland sold at Roncesvalles to equip both sides at your choice of any Hundred Years’ War battle. But as Shodan says, that’s really not the point. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/268 "2019-04-19T10:30:09Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > As horrible as the damage is, it seems it could have been way worse. The interior walls look OK, and the wooden pews are intact. And it looks like a lot of the stained glass survived. All that suggests to me (to be fair, I don’t know what I’m talking about) that the fire stayed mainly on the roof. Kudos to the firefighters! > > I’m an atheist, ex-Catholic, and I hope the cathedral can be fully restored. The primary damage seems to be confined to the roof, and the total loss of the spire. Of course there is a lot of smoke and water damage, the damage the burning roof and spire did as it fell into the building, and strictly speaking the whole site should be a red-flagged toxic waste site! Remember that there was some 220 TONS of lead on that roof, of which most melted and a good bit would have vaporized in the heat. But at this time, my main concern is: Did the stone structure of the building take any significant damage? I.E. is the building still structurally sound, or not? Not just the heat of the fire, but also the mechanical stress of the sudden release of the 750 TON spire collapsing, releasing the load on the supporting walls in an instant. Stone tends to be even less forgiving than concrete for rebound stress fracturing, and even a concrete building would have suffered from such an event. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/269 "2019-04-19T10:51:32Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > Remember that there was some 220 TONS of lead on that roof, of which most melted and a good bit would have vaporized in the heat. The airborne lead will have already blown downwind by now, and solid lead that’s in place is not hazardous. _Removing_ the lead can generate dust and fumes, but you manage that by screening off the work area. > [@](#): > > But at this time, my main concern is: Did the stone structure of the building take any significant damage? I.E. is the building still structurally sound, or not? Not just the heat of the fire, but also the mechanical stress of the sudden release of the 750 TON spire collapsing, releasing the load on the supporting walls in an instant. > Stone tends to be even less forgiving than concrete for rebound stress fracturing, and even a concrete building would have suffered from such an event. The stone was already suffering from the effects of age, weather, air pollution, and loading forces. You are correct, heat is not good for rocks. Currently, those flying buttresses are pushing the walls inward with the force they have always exerted but due to the loss of the roof there is less force counteracting that so indeed the walls are under increased stress. The spire-caused damage is putting those areas at risk. Fire/water damage had weakened part of the bell towers. Emergency bracing and shoring up of the affected areas is already underway. So far nothing more has fallen down, I hope the workers can keep up with everything that needs attention. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/270 "2019-04-19T14:28:08Z")
Saving the art treasures of ND: [How centuries of priceless treasures were saved at Notre Dame - CNN Style](https://www.cnn.com/style/article/notre-dame-art-saved-intl/index.html) One view as to how to go about rebuilding: [Notre Dame: How to rebuild a Gothic masterpiece - CNN Style](http://www.cnn.com/style/article/notre-dame-restoration-gothic-cathedral/) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/271 "2019-04-19T14:35:42Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It was during Harry Truman’s presidency. 1948 to 1952. The outside [of the White House] wasn’t changed but the entire inside was rebuilt with a completely different floor plan… Rebuilt, yes, but the floor plan - especially in the public areas - was left mostly the same. > **[White House Reconstruction | Changes in design](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Reconstruction#Changes_in_design)** > > The rooms of the state floor were reconstructed with few significant changes. The second floor rooms were adjusted to provide built-in closets and additional bathrooms, but otherwise were rebuilt largely as they had been. The third floor was expanded and the rooftop solarium replaced. Two new basement levels were added under the ground floor. > The most noticeable change to the state floor was revising the Grand Stair to discharge eastward into the Entrance Hall to provide a more ceremonial proces... ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/272 "2019-04-19T18:10:02Z")
It looks like the bees survived. In other news, I never knew that bees did not have lungs. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/273 "2019-04-19T18:44:32Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > In other news, I never knew that bees did not have lungs. No insects have lungs. [Lungs are a fish thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung#Evolutionary_origins). ([And some snails](http://what-when-how.com/animal-life/subclass-pulmonata/).) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/274 "2019-04-19T20:02:02Z")
Here’s the Onion on April 17: **Investigators Trace Cause Of Notre Dame Fire To Cathedral’s Outdated 12th-Century Electrical System** > **[Investigators Trace Cause Of Notre Dame Fire To Cathedral’s Outdated...](https://www.theonion.com/investigators-trace-cause-of-notre-dame-fire-to-cathedr-1834116819)** > > PARIS—Saying the devastation could perhaps have been avoided with some routine upgrades to modern 200-amp service, investigators announced Wednesday they have traced the cause of the Notre Dame fire to the cathedral’s archaic electrical system, which... Here’s the latest theory on April 18: > [@](#): > > An electrical short-circuit most likely sparked the inferno at the Notre Dame Cathedral, a French police official told the Associated Press on Thursday. > **[Report: Likely cause of Notre Dame Cathedral fire an electrical short-circuit](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/18/notre-dame-cathedral-france-hold-daylong-tribute-firefighters/3505452002/)** > > An electrical short-circuit most likely sparked the inferno at the Notre Dame Cathedral, a French police official told the Associated Press. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/275 "2019-04-19T23:37:18Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, it’s pretty metal. \m/ (\>.\<) \m/ ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/276 "2019-04-20T03:25:31Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another idea; a few years ago, the Washington Monument had to be closed to repair damage from an earthquake and the entire structure was covered in scaffolding. They wrapped the scaffolding in fabric and illuminated it and that itself was cool to look at (there’s a photo [here](https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/03/michael-graves-dies-a-shortlist-of-the-architect-s-greatest-works-photos.html)). So if it’s possible to get enough scaffolding, the under-repair building can be nice looking. Remember about 20 years ago when they rebuilt the Statue of Liberty? That was also quite a site. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/277 "2019-04-20T04:04:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The airborne lead will have already blown downwind by now, and solid lead that’s in place is not hazardous. I looked into it, and the various air pollution monitoring stations in Paris officially stated they haven’t recorded notable increases in lead concentrations or fine ash particulates after the fire ; which leads experts to posit that most of it must have precipitated on the Ile de la Cité and surrounding housing quarter but don’t really know for absolutely sure yet (because the air monitoring stations are further away and there are none on the island itself). That being said, while a quick googling reveals that the specter of lead toxicity has already been raised in fringe blogs (including one op-ed I found to have been copy/pasted by a number of other small news sites, wherein the writer claims lead vaporizes at 500°C :dubious: so make of that what you will) there doesn’t seem to be a big fear of contamination of the city at large or the downwind countryside in the pages of the major news outlets. City hall however has promised it will do all it can to protect the workers tasked with clearing the rubble (and I would assume the firefighting crew is being monitored for any signs of lead poisoning as well ?) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/278 "2019-04-20T09:42:19Z")
I’m nowhere near an expert on any of this, but lead is heavy so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the airborne stuff dropped out of the air quickly. Lead doesn’t vaporize at 500 C but it does give off fumes, and that might be what the guy is confused about. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/279 "2019-04-20T16:55:56Z")
I don’t have anything interesting to add. But Notre Dame is a beautiful building and I hope they take the time to rebuild it properly. I am personally in favour of using more modern and fireproof materials if it can be done in a way that looks appropriate. It seems there are so many old or historic buildings with expensive restoration and sprinkler needs which governments don’t want to pay for - like the art gallery in Rio de Janiero - and which are in many ways irreplaceable. I wish the French luck in completing this job, hopefully the stone and windows are not too damaged. But it is better to do the job well than to do it quickly just because there is an Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/280 "2019-04-20T20:30:55Z")
Absolutely. I hope we don’t read in a decade or two of all the things done hurriedly, and badly, just to meet Macron’s five-year deadline. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584.md?page=15)