# Notre Dame on fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584 "2019-04-15T17:24:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/61 "2019-04-15T20:54:30Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Civil authorities are reporting that water drops would destroy even more so everything but tankers are being used. LOL. Of course dumbass in chief was totally wrong as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/62 "2019-04-15T20:55:01Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Not a big fan of religion, but buildings like this are a testament to what humans can do when they want to. Well, a testament to what humans can do _wrong_ and then prop up to keep from collapsing. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/63 "2019-04-15T21:00:36Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yes, but it’s interesting that the French are less inclined to spend money on fixing it than Americans are. > [“André Finot, a spokesman for Notre Dame cathedral believes the bulk of the money will need to come from the Americans, millions of whom know Notre Dame and who are less hesitant than the French about giving money to the church. “People don’t want to give money because of laïcité,” he says, referring to the strict secularism that infuses French law.”](https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/notre-dame-cathedral-paris-crumbling-paid-admission-inevitable-fix) That link is to a story from last year about the needed renovations to the Church, and where the money for the current renovations is coming from. The funding to repair the fire damage will probably come from similar channels–the bulk of which will be Americans. Um… why can’t the Vatican chip in? After all, it’s their cathedral. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/64 "2019-04-15T21:01:27Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Not a big fan of religion, but buildings like this are a testament to what humans can do when they want to. Yeah, today we could probably knock something like this together in a year or so but the bulk of Notre Dame went up over 800 years ago. I agree completely with that first sentence on all points, very much so. I also agree with all of what you said about the antiquity of Notre Dame; but [_The Washington Post_ article on the fire](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pariss-notre-cathedral-is-on-fire/2019/04/15/c487906e-5fa1-11e9-bf24-db4b9fb62aa2_story.html?utm_term=.638985174ed6) also quotes a tweet from Kate Wiles, a scholar at Kings’ College London: > [@Kate Wiles](#): > > It’s not just the medieval features. It’s a palimpsest of work and rework, and building and rebuilding, and we’ve lost all those layers. It’s not just the ‘original’ masterpiece we’re losing, but the culmination of some 900 years of history, which can’t just be rebuilt. A sad, sad day. Lifelong (and fairly militant) atheist here; but as a humanist, it’s very depressing to contemplate the loss of all that human toil and effort to create something so majestic and beautiful. And all of my fellow human beings who _are_ Catholics, or Christians more generally, and who are therefore mourning this loss as something beyond history and esthetics, have my deepest sympathies today. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/65 "2019-04-15T21:05:11Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yes, but it’s interesting that the French are less inclined to spend money on fixing it than Americans are. > [“André Finot, a spokesman for Notre Dame cathedral believes the bulk of the money will need to come from the Americans, millions of whom know Notre Dame and who are less hesitant than the French about giving money to the church. “People don’t want to give money because of laïcité,” he says, referring to the strict secularism that infuses French law.”](https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/notre-dame-cathedral-paris-crumbling-paid-admission-inevitable-fix) That link is to a story from last year about the needed renovations to the Church, and where the money for the current renovations is coming from. The funding to repair the fire damage will probably come from similar channels–the bulk of which will be Americans. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Um… why can’t the Vatican chip in? After all, it’s their cathedral. The cathedral (like almost all cathedrals in France) belongs to the state, not the church. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/66 "2019-04-15T21:06:42Z")
I feel for the people who lost a beloved artwork and for the history lost inside, but I’m not a fan of the building. I dislike classic Gothic since it is too overblown and decadent (while not disliking the English styles of Perpendicular Gothic and Victorian Gothic.) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/67 "2019-04-15T21:12:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Um… why can’t the Vatican chip in? After all, it’s their cathedral. No it’s not. It’s owned by France. They should kick in though. ETA: Ninjaed by someone actually in France. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/68 "2019-04-15T21:14:00Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Ken Follett was on the BBC, and of course he has written long novels on cathedral construction. From what I understood, the roofs are made of wood and when they burn they collapse, creating a huge amount of flammable debris everywhere. Yes, and other parts of the the interior are wood as well. I worked on a large project at St Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City 25-30 years ago and fire was a major concern. Because you weren’t just dealing with wood, you were dealing with wood that had absorbed a lot of paraffin due to centuries of candle-burning. We were told that this increased the flammability and the fire risk. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/69 "2019-04-15T21:21:27Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Not a big fan of religion, but buildings like this are a testament to what humans can do when they want to. Yeah, today we could probably knock something like this together in a year or so but the bulk of Notre Dame went up over 800 years ago. In fact, it seems we couldn’t. I read an article years ago about the estimated cost of building nowadays famous monuments of the past, like the Taj Mahal or Versailles. No memory about the costs, but something they mentioned I remember : that it would be pretty much impossible to rebuild any of these identically nowadays because of a massive lack of qualified manpower, like for instance stonemasons. The building of those major monuments involved a huge number of such craftsmen, and they’re nowhere to be found nowadays. The estimated costs given were based or building them with a concrete structure and without most of the niceties. So, for instance, the reconstructed Taj Mahal they considered for their cost estimates would only be concrete covered with marble “sheets” and without most of the delicate stone engraving. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/70 "2019-04-15T21:22:27Z")
I was fortunate enough to have seen it in person, on an Easter Sunday no less. Notre Dame is one of the world’s treasures, and it’s a shocking to think that a national symbol and something so iconic could just burned away completely in the span of less than a night. I visited the original WTC so this could be the second major structure that I’ve seen destroyed in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/71 "2019-04-15T21:33:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I was fortunate enough to have seen it in person, on an Easter Sunday no less. Notre Dame is one of the world’s treasures, and it’s a shocking to think that a national symbol and something so iconic could just burned away completely in the span of less than a night. > > I visited the original WTC so this could be the second major structure that I’ve seen destroyed in my lifetime. There have to be millions of people who have been to both of those places. They were iconic structures in major tourist destinations. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/72 "2019-04-15T21:39:29Z")
A rebuild would take decades, even assuming they could find the craftsmen and funding needed. The National Cathedral in Washington DC is \*still \*being worked on, and it is over 100 years old. Admittedly, a project like rebuilding Notre Dame will provide the opportunity to increase the ranks of those craftsmen, but the skill required will still take years to develop. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/73 "2019-04-15T21:39:36Z")
I know this shows that I’m a twisted person, but the thought that occurred to me is why terrorists don’t use arson of historical buildings and vandalism of art more often. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/74 "2019-04-15T21:43:27Z")
Washington Post front page reporting the towers have been saved. Doesn’t look like much of the rest is going to make it, though. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/75 "2019-04-15T21:44:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The cathedral (like almost all cathedrals in France) belongs to the state, not the church. Which is why it is almost certainly not insured. The repair bill will be huge. But it won’t be so big that the French government won’t be able to foot it. National governments tend not to insure their major historic monuments because their budgets are big enough to deal with unexpected contingencies even on this scale. > [@clairobscur](#): > > In fact, it seems we couldn’t. I read an article years ago about the estimated cost of building nowadays famous monuments of the past, like the Taj Mahal or Versailles. No memory about the costs, but something they mentioned I remember : that it would be pretty much impossible to rebuild any of these identically nowadays because of a massive lack of qualified manpower, like for instance stonemasons. The building of those major monuments involved a huge number of such craftsmen, and they’re nowhere to be found nowadays. The estimated costs given were based or building them with a concrete structure and without most of the niceties. So, for instance, the reconstructed Taj Mahal they considered for their cost estimates would only be concrete covered with marble “sheets” and without most of the delicate stone engraving. Actually, the experience of major restoration projects is often that the project creates the qualified manpower. This will be a chance for lots of new stonemasons etc. to learn those skills. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/76 "2019-04-15T21:51:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > In fact, it seems we couldn’t. We’ll struggle to find thousands of oak trees of sufficient size to replace the roof beams, for a start. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/77 "2019-04-15T21:51:38Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > :smack: > > How do you insure an 800-year old building that’s larger than a football field and the literally irreplaceable artwork inside. [By putting a misting system](https://www.marioff.com/references/buildings/st-patricks-cathedral-new-york-usa) in it like they did for St Patrick’s Cathedral in New York. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/78 "2019-04-15T21:51:56Z")
That’s all we needed was that orange galoot to weigh in with a moronic tweet. I’m surprised the fucker didn’t blame it on Obama. Good job by the Paris firefighters. What a Herculean job they faced and I hope the story is true that the structure has been saved. I hope they have a huge celebration when the reconstruction is complete. Question on the ownership of the building- why wouldn’t it belong to the diocese? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/79 "2019-04-15T21:55:28Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I feel for the people who lost a beloved artwork and for the history lost inside, but I’m not a fan of the building. I dislike classic Gothic since it is too overblown and decadent (while not disliking the English styles of Perpendicular Gothic and Victorian Gothic.) For purposes of art and history, it really doesn’t matter whether an individual, or even a majority of individuals, dislikes a particular style. I don’t want to lose exemplars of styles that I dislike any more than I want to lose exemplars of styles that I like. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/80 "2019-04-15T21:58:09Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > That wins the prize for the most inane comment of the day. It probably could have waited a few days but it was spot on. The New York City fire department worked with St Patrick’s Cathedral group to bring it up to code. There’s really no reason not to do this. Would you accept the deaths of family and friends because an older building wasn’t brought up to code? I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t but I could be wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584.md?page=5)