# Notre Dame on fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584 "2019-04-15T17:24:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/81 "2019-04-15T22:03:59Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Civil authorities are reporting that water drops would destroy even more so everything but tankers are being used. Because of the insulating qualities of a hundred tons of burning debris falling on it? I would like to hear that explanation. I wouldn’t be surprised if the restoration in progress didn’t include a fire suppression system in the roof. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/82 "2019-04-15T22:04:49Z")
We’re losing a wonder here, people. Less political pettiness? Please? I’d hoped for so much better from the SDMB. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/83 "2019-04-15T22:06:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It probably could have waited a few days but it was spot on. The New York City fire department worked with St Patrick’s Cathedral group to bring it up to code. There’s really no reason not to do this. > > Would you accept the deaths of family and friends because an older building wasn’t brought up to code? I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t but I could be wrong. Do they have tanker aircraft and qualified pilots at the ready near metro Paris? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/84 "2019-04-15T22:16:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I was fortunate enough to have seen it in person… I visited the original WTC so this could be the second major structure that I’ve seen destroyed in my lifetime. I was in the WTC many times, and in ND three times. I’m especially concerned for the beautiful stained glass, especially the three rose windows. I took such beautiful photos of these when I was there. It would take many years to painstakingly restore/replace them. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/85 "2019-04-15T22:30:34Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > That wins the prize for the most inane comment of the day. Just hold your horses, there, Buddy! I haven’t posted yet! ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/86 "2019-04-15T22:32:34Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I was in the WTC many times, and in ND three times. > > I’m especially concerned for the beautiful stained glass, especially the three rose windows. I took such beautiful photos of these when I was there. It would take many years to painstakingly restore/replace them. From the last pictures of them that I saw, they’re completely gone. The heat from the fire melted the lead holding the glass in place. They may be able to replicate the images, but they no longer know how to create the colors used. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/87 "2019-04-15T22:34:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Question on the ownership of the building- why wouldn’t it belong to the diocese? Because the properties of the church, including the buildings, was seized during the revolution. It took until 1905 to reach a final settlement on this issue but the churches and cathedrals stayed public property loaned to local religious associations (not the Catholic church directly). Cathedral belongs to the state, regular churches to municipalities. Except those build since, of course. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/88 "2019-04-15T22:42:36Z")
I don’t see how they save the windows. They have to be true leaded glass and I assume the lead would melt under the heat. Two of the rose windows are in the center of the building. I can’t imagine how they could be reconstructed. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/89 "2019-04-15T22:45:52Z")
The [aerial view](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OJQiUW0AECxFr.jpg:large) looks devastating. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/90 "2019-04-15T22:55:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because of the insulating qualities of a hundred tons of burning debris falling on it? > > I would like to hear that explanation. > > I wouldn’t be surprised if the restoration in progress didn’t include a fire suppression system in the roof. France typically uses large aerial firefighting aircraft, particularly the Canadair CL-415, to fight wildfires. Even if they were available nearby for deployment, such aircraft are in general not suited to fighting structure fires. A full load of water from a CL-415 weighs over 6 metric tonnes; that much water falling at once on the cathedral would be destructive of anything standing, including the centuries-old masonry structures. I’m not sure what would happen when that much water started flashing to steam on contact with the heat inside the building, either. Also importantly, it’s difficult to be precise in releasing that water – it’s meant to fight a forest fire, not a single building. The water drop would pose a danger to people, equipment, and structures near the cathedral. Finally, the smoke and increasing darkness would make it difficult to operate the aircraft over the site. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/91 "2019-04-15T23:08:42Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I don’t see how they save the windows. They have to be true leaded glass and I assume the lead would melt under the heat. Two of the rose windows are in the center of the building. I can’t imagine how they could be reconstructed. You are correct, the lead and solder would melt under the heat and the glass would fall from the windows. The windows have been destroyed. However, there is a LOT of documentation on the windows. What could be done is not a restoration but a reconstruction of the windows. They would not, of course, be \*exactly \*the same. On the other hand - over the centuries those windows have been repaired as needed. I think something like 20% of the original glass was replaced over time. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/92 "2019-04-15T23:09:12Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The [aerial view](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OJQiUW0AECxFr.jpg:large) looks devastating. # I _think_ most of those flames are on top of the stone roof. There’s not much visible fire in the lower levels. A Reuters photographer has some images from the inside and well, it could have been worse > This person has uploaded a few of images, sorry about the twitter link, but what you gonna do with primitive board software like this place has. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/93 "2019-04-15T23:14:20Z")
Why do bad things happen to good buildings? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/94 "2019-04-15T23:23:05Z")
MSNBC’s Richard Engel is reporting that the altar and a bunch of other stuff has been saved, including at least part of the North Rose window. Notre Dame shall rise again! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/95 "2019-04-15T23:25:10Z")
I know it’s nothing as grand as the Notre Dame Cathedral, but when [fire gutted the Provo Tabernacle](https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705363161/Provo-Tabernacle-burns-in-four-alarm-fire.html) here in Utah, they [saved the outer walls and rebuilt it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3AKN78PpSE) into a [beautiful temple](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVoZ_5kGhqc). I guess what I’m trying to say is, this sucks, but it can get better. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/96 "2019-04-15T23:26:51Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > # > > I _think_ most of those flames are on top of the stone roof. There’s not much visible fire in the lower levels. > > A Reuters photographer has some images from the inside and well, it could have been worse > > [https://twitter.com/sotiridi/status/1117908328192139266](https://twitter.com/sotiridi/status/1117908328192139266) > > This person has uploaded a few of images, sorry about the twitter link, but what you gonna do with primitive board software like this place has. Wow, if those photos are accurate, then it looks like the interior is mostly untouched. From the aerial photo, it looked like the inside of the cathedral had been turned into a tub of burning charcoal. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/97 "2019-04-15T23:27:37Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Yes, but it’s interesting that the French are less inclined to spend money on fixing it than Americans are. > [“André Finot, a spokesman for Notre Dame cathedral believes the bulk of the money will need to come from the Americans, millions of whom know Notre Dame and who are less hesitant than the French about giving money to the church. “People don’t want to give money because of laïcité,” he says, referring to the strict secularism that infuses French law.”](https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/notre-dame-cathedral-paris-crumbling-paid-admission-inevitable-fix) That link is to a story from last year about the needed renovations to the Church, and where the money for the current renovations is coming from. The funding to repair the fire damage will probably come from similar channels–the bulk of which will be Americans. [French billionaire pledges €100m to rebuilding efforts](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/15/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-france-landmark-live-news?page=with:block-5cb50e018f08bc7376aedec3#block-5cb50e018f08bc7376aedec3) Agence France-Presse reports that François-Henri Pinault, the chairman and CEO of international luxury group Kering, which owns brands like Gucci, Yves Saint Laurent, Balenciaga, and Alexander McQueen, has pledged 100 million euros towards rebuilding Notre-Dame, according to a statement. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/98 "2019-04-15T23:30:14Z")
I’ve never been to Notre Dame, but I liked knowing it was there. The thrill of standing in such historical structures is envisioning the construction as it developed over several lifetimes, of touching the same masonry that others touched hundreds of years ago. A rebuild would be a mere facsimile. I’m too heartsick to watch any more coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/99 "2019-04-15T23:47:44Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > MSNBC’s Richard Engel is reporting that the altar and a bunch of other stuff has been saved, including at least part of the North Rose window. > > Notre Dame shall rise again! Um… [I believe this is an image of the North Rose](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2019/04/photos-notre-dame-cathedral-burns-p/n12_RTX6RSCY/main_1500.jpg?1555353824) It… doesn’t look good. And that’s before the spire collapsed, several more hours of fire can not have done it any good. Take all reports with a grain of salt at this point. You know how disasters are, lots of stuff gets reported, not all of it as accurate as we’d like. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584/100 "2019-04-15T23:52:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Um… [I believe this is an image of the North Rose](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2019/04/photos-notre-dame-cathedral-burns-p/n12_RTX6RSCY/main_1500.jpg?1555353824) It… doesn’t look good. And that’s before the spire collapsed, several more hours of fire can not have done it any good. > > Take all reports with a grain of salt at this point. You know how disasters are, lots of stuff gets reported, not all of it as accurate as we’d like. :eek: What an incredible picture! ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-on-fire/832584.md?page=6)