# Notre Dame suspends players for academic misconduct **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961 "2014-08-30T14:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/1 "2014-08-30T14:49:11Z")
In another thread, I was criticized for my belief that academics should come before athletics. I think we can all agree Notre Dame would’ve looked the other way if they were a NC contender. If you disagree with that, please explain the cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/2 "2014-08-30T14:54:08Z")
That’s not the way it works. No school is going to violate its policies about suspending players who get caught in academic misconduct, and every school is going to have such policies. In a school that puts an unethical emphasis on athletics (and I am not saying whether Notre Dame is such a school), they wouldn’t ignore the policy; they would ensure that the player never got caught. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/3 "2014-08-30T15:04:16Z")
Credit to you Chronos: you acknowledge they don’t truly care about academics. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/4 "2014-09-03T00:32:25Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I think we can all agree Notre Dame would’ve looked the other way if they were a NC contender. If you disagree with that, please explain the cognitive dissonance. Everett Golson took the Irish to the National Championship game in 2013, and was suspended the very next season for academic misconduct. Please explain your cognitive dissonance of completely ignoring that extremely relevant counter-example to your entire argument. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/5 "2014-09-03T12:27:00Z")
That’s news to me. I’m not a rabid college fan anymore. So it’s ignorance, not cognitive dissonance. I credit Notre Dame for caring about academics. But I ask, were they a NC contender last year? If not, my point stands. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/6 "2014-09-03T12:37:53Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > That’s news to me. I’m not a rabid college fan anymore. So it’s ignorance, not cognitive dissonance. I credit Notre Dame for caring about academics. But I ask, were they a NC contender last year? If not, my point stands. They finished last season in the Top 15. This year, they’re #15 in one poll and #16 in the other to start the season. Notre Dame is _always_ a national title contender. Literally. They are in the running for the national title, at least until they lose a game, every single year. The combination of their prestige and their usually unimpeachably brutal schedule means they’re always in the conversation until they prove they shouldn’t be. And they just suspended their best offensive player. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/7 "2014-09-03T12:50:51Z")
Seriously! Notre Dame is annually a NC contender? Did you watch college football during the 90s and 00s? Do the names Bob Davie and Ty Willingham ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/8 "2014-09-03T12:59:05Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Seriously! Notre Dame is annually a NC contender? Did you watch college football during the 90s and 00s? Do the names Bob Davie and Ty Willingham ring a bell? The fact remains that your argument with regards to Notre Dame has been totally debunked; they WERE a contender last year, were a contender the year before, are again this year, and suspended their best offensive player for academic misconduct. The hypothetical in your OP actually happened exactly the way you claimed it would not. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/9 "2014-09-03T13:00:11Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Seriously! Notre Dame is annually a NC contender? Did you watch college football during the 90s and 00s? Do the names Bob Davie and Ty Willingham ring a bell? The Davie years were lean for Notre Dame, but Willingham’s tenure kind of makes my point. His first year, even coming off a 5-6 year under Davie, they were in the national title discussion until they lost to Boston College. No matter how bad they were last year, all Notre Dame has to do is win their first couple of games and the hype machine starts grinding. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/10 "2014-09-03T13:20:28Z")
So it’s a function of the name, and NOT the quality of the product on the field? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/11 "2014-09-03T13:32:50Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > So it’s a function of the name, and NOT the quality of the product on the field? I don’t think it’s an either-or. It’s both. In a sport still largely governed by polls, the name is certainly a factor. Notre Dame’s name and history are such that a 5-0 start gets the national title talk started in a way that a similar start wouldn’t for most other schools. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/12 "2014-09-03T14:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **etv78** : > > Credit to you Chronos: you acknowledge they don’t truly care about academics. Allow me to repeat myself: > [@](#): > > (and I am not saying whether Notre Dame is such a school) I do not have sufficient information about Notre Dame to pass judgement, positive or negative, on them. I do not acknowledge anything. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/13 "2014-09-03T14:38:48Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > That’s news to me. … But I ask, were they a NC contender last year? If not, my point stands. 1. If it’s “news to you”, maybe hold off on the absolute statements, eh? 2. They were a decent team last year - with Golson, they’d have had a chance to make a run. 3. Your point relies on a ton of information that you’re assuming (that could be EASILY looked up), has been debunked several times in this thread, and you continue to attempt to move the goalposts. THAT is cognitive dissonance. Try assimilating the information multiple people are giving you for once. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/14 "2014-09-03T14:54:19Z")
ND has the second best graduation rate for football players (97%) in NCAA Div 1. They have traditionally had top or near top graduation numbers, so by that metric at least they have always valued the education along with the athletics. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/15 "2014-09-03T17:03:40Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > In another thread, I was criticized for my belief that academics should come before athletics. > > I think we can all agree Notre Dame would’ve looked the other way if they were a NC contender. If you disagree with that, please explain the cognitive dissonance. You weren’t criticized for anything remotely like that. You were, however, soundly criticized for conflating payment for athletes with a lack of priority on academics. And you haven’t made any better arguments in this thread than you did in that one. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/16 "2014-09-03T17:26:30Z")
Isn’t paying for athletic performance pretty much denigrating academics? I give Notre Dame credit for their exemplary graduation rate. But that just makes them the exception that proves the rule. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/17 "2014-09-03T17:36:55Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Isn’t paying for athletic performance pretty much denigrating academics? I give Notre Dame credit for their exemplary graduation rate. But that just makes them the exception that proves the rule. While I was in college I had work study money as financial aid. As a biology major I had a job in the childcare center. My roommate had a job in the ice cream shop on campus. We were paid and expected to do our jobs in order to get funding for our tuition. Does that mean my top tier academic University placed a higher priority on scut work than academics? Some University’s do put too high a priority on athletics compared to academics for their student-athletes. However paying them to play sports is not evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/18 "2014-09-03T18:50:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > ND has the second best graduation rate for football players (97%) in NCAA Div 1. They have traditionally had top or near top graduation numbers, so by that metric at least they have always valued the education along with the athletics. As a former ND tutor, I can attest that they do this by giving the athletes tutoring that is not available to other students, and that they have scheduling that pretty much guarantees the athletes will need the tutoring because they miss so many classes. (At least for football and basketball.) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/19 "2014-09-03T19:38:57Z")
[quote=“etv78, post:16, topic:696961”] \*\*Isn’t paying for athletic performance pretty much denigrating academics? \*\* No. Maybe. That’s part of the debate and opposing viewpoints were explained to you at length in the O’Bannon thread. You have yet to explain yours. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/notre-dame-suspends-players-for-academic-misconduct/696961/20 "2014-09-04T00:00:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > But that just makes them the exception that proves the rule. No, it’s not. There’s plenty of wiggle room between “exemplary academic standards for student-athletes” and “salaried football player”. We need only look to the one-and-done structure that the NBA has dictated for college basketball to see exactly how low standards can be set, and it becomes obviously clear that you have a very long row to hoe to convince anyone that your point has merit regarding football.