Their won-loss record is a great indication of how good a coach is at coaching and player development. It’s an absolutely terrible indication of how good a coach is at getting players that every other team in the country is after. We’ve been over this. Weis is regarded universally (minus you) to have been a fantastic recruiter. Get over it.
Correction:It’s an absolutely terrible indication of how good a coach is at getting players that every other team in the country is after, especially if after the end of the recruiting season everyone agrees you got more of the desireable players than 98% of the rest of the teams did. Whether they actually pan out 4-5 years later has way more variables to point to than that. Scouting=/= recruiting.
“Universally”? :dubious:
You’ve *asserted *it repeatedly, true. Yet the only evidence you provide is some vague references the testimony of the coaches of inferior programs, most of whom must know the standard coaches’ trick of publicly downplaying their own teams’ abilities and playing up the competition’s.
Yup, Pete Carroll is a terrible source that shouldn’t be trusted.
From the minute Weis got there Notre Dame started ranking at the top of all the recruiting class rankings in the media every single year. You can make a case that ESPN, Scouts Inc., Rivals and whatever other media outlet you want is ill informed and self serving, but by every metric available to the general public ND and Weis were considered to be dominant recruiters for the last 5 years. The NFL players that are expected to come out of ND in the next couple years helps reinforce that.
Recruiting isn’t everything, hell Illinois under Zook has been in the top 15 of recruiting for just about every year too, but there’s not a whole lot of basis to claim NDs recruiting base is in any way struggling. When those recruiting classes end up developing into Pro prospects, true at both ND and U of I, its nearly impossible to blame talent.
That’s all true and you make excellent points, but I think that Notre Dame can and should accept scholastically marginal players like Rice & Zorich and then tutor them, make sure they go to class and do their best with their schoolwork. Both Rick & Zorich did that and both they and ND football prospered.
Not at face value, no. I already explained why. Plus, Pete is an expert bullshitter even by coaches’ standards - that’s largely what makes him such a great recruiter. And largely what made him a failure in the NFL, btw.
Fine. Then please make an argument against the combined reliability of ESPN, Scouts and Rivals.
Offtopic but amusing. For a moment there, the thread title on the Dope read “Notre Dame’s new head football coach will be… Omniscient”. Which would be a handy trait in a coach, really.
I’ve had talks but nothing is imminent. There’s still details to work out.
Somebody’s defending the reliability of ESPN. Amazing.
Somebody’s avoiding the issue. Not amazing.
In what way have you found them to be unreliable?
Elvis - I’ll make it really easy for you to understand. There are three main sources for high school football talent evaluation - ESPN, Rivals.com and Scout.com. They are highly regarded in this subject because when they put out their Top 100/200/300/whatever lists, college coaches around the country all focus on recruiting those top players. When Athletic Directors decide to evaluate a coach’s recruiting ability, they refer not to their win/loss records but their success in attracting those highly regarded high school athletes to come to their schools. When ESPN, Rivals and Scout evaluate a school’s ability to recruit, they do so the moment that particular recruiting season ends.
The front page of Rivals.com’s recruiting page has the 2010 Recruiting Rankings. Why don’t they have the 2005 recruiting rankings up there on the front page?
The front page of Scout.com’s college football page has the 2010 Recruiting Rankings. How in the WORLD are they able to determine this when those recruits haven’t played a single down in college yet? It just boggles the mind, doesn’t it?
Here’s why - recruiting success is evaluated as it happens - in the living rooms and press conferences on Signing Day. Player development and coaching talent is evaluated as it happens as well - on the field and in the win/loss records.
Technically the Gators did win the 1984 SEC Championship. It was retroactively taken away due to rampant cheating (which has never happened to any other SEC school, despite plenty of worse cheating by Bama, Auburn, Georgia, etc.) . We also finished first in the SEC in 1985, but were already ineligible for the title that year. Florida has some very successful seasons in the 60’s as well, but could never quite get over the hump to win the SEC.
Gary Patterson has reportedly agreed to an extension with TCU, which would take him out of the running for the Notre Dame job.
Coaches have signed a new deal and then quit for a better job a few weeks later. And it’s possible he won’t actually sign the new deal until after the ND job is filled.
I was curious about Weis and recruiting, so I googled, here’s an analysis of data from Scout and Rivals comparing Big 10 and ND. It shows ND is pretty close to Michigan and Ohio State (but behind both).
http://cfb-hashmarks.blogspot.com/2009/11/big-10-notre-dame-talent-analysis.html
Got an example?
Patterson is under contract through 2014 at the moment and the proposed new deal would add two more years. Supposedly the agreement will be announced Wednesday.
Does 4 months count as a few weeks?
Rich Rodriguez left West Virginia for Michigan just 4 months after renegotiating his contract with WVU.
On a related matter, Notre Dame ask George O’Leary to resign shortly after becoming Head Football coach for inaccuracies in his resume and application.