# Noun for language but not for speakers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 31, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915 "2020-07-31T13:38:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/1 "2020-07-31T13:38:10Z")
Many nouns for languages also are the cultural/ethnic noun (loosely) for the speakers. For example : 1. French: May refer to the language and Or the people 2. English : may refer to the language or the people 3. Spanish : may refer to the language or the people Hindi is a language spoken in India but there is no such thing as “Hindi people”. Are there other languages that fall into category ? I am guessing Yiddish and Aramaic are nouns for the language but not the people. Is that correct ? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/2 "2020-07-31T14:00:09Z")
There was a group of people called Latins, but for most of the history of the language, people who spoke Latin (even natively) weren’t necessarily Latin people. And then in the last century or so, “Latin” applied to people is short for “Latin American”. None of whom speak Latin natively. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/3 "2020-07-31T14:09:46Z")
Farsi. There’s an extra layer there, because there are completely separate words for the ethnicity (Persian) and the country (Iran). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/4 "2020-07-31T14:16:12Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Hindi is a language spoken in India but there is no such thing as “Hindi people”. Similarly, Urdu is the official language of Pakistan and parts of India but Pakistanis aren’t called “Urdus”. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/5 "2020-07-31T14:33:56Z")
Esperanto ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/6 "2020-07-31T14:40:41Z")
Mandarin should qualify, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/7 "2020-07-31T14:45:10Z")
Tagalog (Philippines). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/8 "2020-07-31T14:48:26Z")
Thought of another – [Tok Pisin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tok_Pisin) in New Guinea. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/9 "2020-07-31T15:17:57Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Hindi is a language spoken in India but there is no such thing as “Hindi people”. [Ah, but there is, rather, was.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi#Etymology) > The term _Hindī_ originally was used to refer to inhabitants of the [Indo-Gangetic Plain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Gangetic_Plain). It was borrowed from [Classical Persian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Persian) هندی _Hindī_ ([Iranian Persian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Persian) pronunciation: _Hendi_ ), meaning “of or belonging to _[Hind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustan)_ (India)” (hence, “Indian”). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/10 "2020-07-31T15:47:52Z")
Yiddish is German for Jewish. Just now looking it up, Aramaic essentially means Syrian.: “from Greek _Aramaios_ ‘of Aram’ (the biblical name of Syria)” ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/11 "2020-07-31T16:13:02Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yiddish is German for Jewish. Not quite, “Jewish” in German is “Jüdisch”, though “Jüdisch” and “Yiddish” are surely etymologically related. ETA: “Jüdisch” only relates to ethnicity/religion, not to any language. “Yiddish” in German is “Jiddisch”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/12 "2020-07-31T17:28:05Z")
I was mainly going off what my father told me, Yiddish was his first language. [Wikipedia](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddisch) has this explanation " **Yiddish** (Yiddishיידיש or אידיש(literally _Jewish,_ short for _Yiddish-Daitsch_ or _Jewish-German_ )" When you get to the section on [History,](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddisch#Geschichte) in the topic Terms, it gets really interesting. ‘Yiddish’ might actually be an English word meaning ‘Jewish’, eventually adopted by German. And more stuff I didn’t know until now too. So it does refer to the people and the language in English, but maybe only Yiddish speakers and not all Jews if someone at the time made such a distinction. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/13 "2020-07-31T18:18:30Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Farsi. There’s an extra layer there, because there are completely separate words for the ethnicity (Persian) and the country (Iran). Although it wasn’t very many years ago that the country was also called Persia. Country names (and borders) change a lot more quickly than ethnic groups move around regions or than languages colonize new areas. Or than groups or languages get new names. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/14 "2020-07-31T19:47:12Z")
Well, there’s Dutch, but that’s what the people are called too, but there is no country called Dut. Flemish? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/15 "2020-07-31T20:39:28Z")
The root of Dutch/Deutsch means something like “of the people”. There is already one Deutschland/Duitsland, namely Germany. Flemings from Flanders speak Flemish. > [@HeyHomie](#): > > Esperanto They are called Esperantists. Not going to argue whether or not they form a “people”. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/16 "2020-07-31T21:12:19Z")
In Italian, they speak tedesco in Germania. True Tagalog is the most widely spoken language in the Republic of the Philippines, but the standardized version mostly based on Tagalog is called Filipino. Then there’s parts of the world where ethnic groups and nationalities aren’t the same. People from Bosnia are Bosnians, but the ethnic group who tend to be Muslim associated with the country are Bosniaks. But you can be a Bosnian Serb or Bosnian Croat. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/17 "2020-08-01T01:00:37Z")
Dari? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/18 "2020-08-01T12:03:58Z")
There most certainly are [people called Tagalog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagalog_people) who speak a [language called Tagalog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagalog_language). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/19 "2020-08-01T13:13:00Z")
Do slight differences in word forms also count? The ethnic group that speaks the language Arabic is called Arabs. Hebrew is another example. In past centuries it was often used synonymously with Jewish to refer to the people, but that has fallen out of use. So the people are Jewish, or they’re Israeli if they are nationals of the Middle Eastern country that has Hebrew as an official language, but the language is Hebrew. (And of course additional complications set in since there are Jewish people who are not Israeli by citizenship, and who don’t speak Hebrew, and conversely there are people who speak Hebrew and might be Israeli but are not Jewish…you get what I mean). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915/20 "2020-08-01T13:16:16Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > They are called Esperantists. Not going to argue whether or not they form a “people”. That’s also a complicated case, since “Esperantist” can refer either to a person who simply speaks Esperanto, or to a person who studies Esperanto systematically and supports the Esperanto movement. It’s difficult to distinguish the two since there are almost no native speakers in the language, so anybody who speaks the language is likely to do so out of an interest in and support for the movement. But the confusion has been noted within the Esperanto community itself, which is why it is sometimes preferred to use “Esperanto speakers” (_Esperanto-parolantoj_) if you just want to say that someone speaks the language, with no further ideological connotations. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noun-for-language-but-not-for-speakers/916915.md?page=2)