# Nov '04 Election Comments Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563 "2004-11-02T16:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/241 "2004-11-03T03:03:29Z")
In other news, all of the ballot initiatives to ban same-sex marriage are [passing](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/ballot.measures/) with nary a sweat. I wish I could say I’m surprised. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/242 "2004-11-03T03:04:18Z")
**Dio** , stop being naive. Florida was never going to go Kerry’s way. In what ideal world would the brother of the incumbent allow his satrapy to go for the challenger? Certainly not in any real world. I disagree that Ohio looks bad: unless something crazy happens, Ohio is Kerry’s. If the 2000 map stays stable, and all indications are that it will, that means Kerry will win. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/243 "2004-11-03T03:04:23Z")
Take a deep breath. Bush hasn’t won a single state he wasn’t expected to win by pollsters who predicted a Kerry win. Nothing new about the fact that Kerry needs either Ohio or Florida (barring unlikely scenarios). It’s psychologically painful to see the Bush states coming in first, and within the crucial states we have at least some reason to believe we’re seeing the Bush-supportive areas post first. But those states haven’t been called yet. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/244 "2004-11-03T03:04:32Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Exit polls don’t lie. \ > [@John Mace](#): > > So what? You don’t care that the system that counts your vote maynot be reliable? I’m sorry to hear that you value your vote so cheaply. Me, I want great heaps of failsafes, paper trails and all the independent observers I can stuff into a polling station. The better to root out any skulduggery (by _either_ side). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/245 "2004-11-03T03:05:04Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You know what? No one cares. That’s the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/246 "2004-11-03T03:05:05Z")
Actual vote in PA looks to be skewing a lot further from exit polls than in Florida. The skew in Florida’s probably inside the statistical margin of error. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/247 "2004-11-03T03:05:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The so what is that the Republicans are cheating their fucking asses off and trying to steal the fucking election AGAIN. Some people need to go to prison over this, starting with Jeb Bush. When did this become the pit??? We had reports here in Milwaukee that 30 vehicles used by the republicans that were to be used to transport people that needed rides to the voting locations all had their tires slashed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/248 "2004-11-03T03:05:16Z")
CO’s amendment to change how they allocate electors is failing big time. Thank God. That would be a mess. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/249 "2004-11-03T03:05:39Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Everybody: the Daily Show special is on. Some of us need a break. Oh man! I missed 10 minutes, anything good? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/250 "2004-11-03T03:07:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The television networks have been using exit polls to accurately project election results for decades. This is the first major election that they _haven’t_ used them. They are extremely accurate. > > Show me a paper trail in Florida or I’ll have to assume the results are bogus. If the Republicans are engaging in election fraud in FL, the big lead for Bush so far implies it is massive. So massive even a Bush hater like me doubts he could pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/251 "2004-11-03T03:07:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s the problem. You missed the point. No one cares whether YOU accept the election as legitimate or not. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/252 "2004-11-03T03:08:04Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > If it can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt, I’m all for it. Me too. I’m certainly open to PROOF…but I’m sick of dark mutterings and implications with no substance. > [@John Mace](#): > > You know what? No one cares. I’m certainly sick of the whole chicken little routine at this point. I’m open to that proof stuff and maybe some of those fact things…but this automatic knee jerk reaction is pretty annoying. > [@DtC](#): > > The television networks have been using exit polls to accurately project election results for decades. This is the first major election that they haven’t used them. They are extremely accurate. Huh? Didn’t they use exit polls in 2000? I seem to distinctly remember a bunch of network news groups saying Gore had easily won (based on exit polls)…only to come back and say, well, no Bush had won…er, no, its a tie. I also seem to remember several local elections where exit polls predicted an easy win…for the guy who ended up losing in the end. > [@DtC](#): > > The so what is that the Republicans are cheating their fucking asses off and trying to steal the fucking election AGAIN. Some people need to go to prison over this, starting with Jeb Bush. Got any of that ‘proof’ stuff? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/253 "2004-11-03T03:08:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > CO’s amendment to change how they allocate electors is failing big time. Thank God. That would be a mess. How so? Proportional distribution of electoral votes works in NE and ME. Or is it the retroactive application that’s the mess you refer to? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/254 "2004-11-03T03:09:28Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > If the Republicans are engaging in election fraud in FL, the big lead for Bush so far implies it is massive. So massive even a Bush hater like me doubts he could pull it off. Exactly, a well organized vote-fraud ring encompassing hundreds of thousand of votes and spanning several counties would be impossible to hide. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/255 "2004-11-03T03:10:28Z")
Missouri just went to Bush, according to NBC. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO CALL SOME BLUE STATES? I have a feeling this election will end up with results similar to the last; popular vote with Kerry, electoral vote with Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/256 "2004-11-03T03:11:14Z")
The proof is in the exit polls, in the already demonstrated problems with Diebold, in the calculated lack of a paper trail and in the corrupt history of the Bush’s in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/257 "2004-11-03T03:12:11Z")
Carl Rove reminded us on a radio show this afternoon that the exit polls in 2000 in some states were off by as many as 10 percentage points. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/258 "2004-11-03T03:12:54Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > How so? Proportional distribution of electoral votes works in NE and ME. Or is it the retroactive application that’s the mess you refer to? It’s not proportional in Maine or Nebraska; it is divvied up by congressional district and two for state-wide. The proposed amendement here which is happily being shot down in flames would have assigned electoral votes in relation to the percentage of the popular vote. Search for any of the recent electoral vote threads in this forum and you’ll find plenty to read about it. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/259 "2004-11-03T03:12:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The so what is that the Republicans are cheating their fucking asses off and trying to steal the fucking election AGAIN. Some people need to go to prison over this, starting with Jeb Bush. That won’t happen, he’s the Republican candidate for 2008. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563/260 "2004-11-03T03:13:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The proof is in the exit polls, in the already demonstrated problems with Diebold, in the calculated lack of a paper trail and in the corrupt history of the Bush’s in Florida. Oh, can it. You’d be hard pressed to find someone who despises the tactics used in the 2000 election by the GOP more than I, but this isn’t the pit, and the primary focus of this thread so far has been to discuss the election results as being reported by the media. You obviously have a lot to say on this. For the sake of those of us interested in facts, please don’t say it right here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-04-election-comments-thread/272563.md?page=14)