# Nov 4 - This Nightmare Must End: The Trump/Pence Regime Must Go! protest **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432 "2017-11-01T20:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/201 "2017-11-06T02:06:02Z")
Since we’re spitballing here, I don’t think he’s a sociopath. Narcissists can display a troubling lack of empathy but that doesn’t make them sociopaths. Trump seems to genuinely care about his kids, his wife, and everyone willing to lick his ass. He only attacks others when his sense of supremacy is threatened. People are all the time claiming their ex-was a textbook narcissist or sociopath or whatever and then describe behavior that’s shitty or even abusive, but not narcissism per se. Likewise, sociopathology is likely more serious and intractable compared to NPD. Personality disorders can be really difficult to treat but they are in essence defined by patterns of behavior that are reinforced by their relationships (which yes, means treatment requires the people on the other side of the relationship to change in how they relate to the disordered person.) NPD is at its core a behavioral issue. Sociopathology is basically just, sorry, your brain is broken and you’re not really human. I was raised by a person diagnosed with BPD and a person most likely a sociopath based on the fact that he did things like blackmail his father using his father’s alleged murder history in order to extort a piece of land from him. He enjoyed killing animals, frequently waxed poetic about what a shame human conscience was, and he used people like kleenexes, including his teenaged daughter. There’s a world of difference. Not that personality disorders are a walk in the park, or anything. But I think it really dilutes the ‘‘Trump is mentally ill’’ argument when people try to throw up any label that might stick. He’s a narcissist. > [@](#): > > The definition of NPD states that it comprises of a persistent manner of grandiosity, a continuous desire for admiration, along with a lack of empathy. It starts by early adulthood and occurs in a range of situations, as signified by the existence of any 5 of the next 9 standards (American Psychiatric Association, 2013): > > A grandiose logic of self-importance > A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love > A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions > A desire for unwarranted admiration > A sense of entitlement > Interpersonally oppressive behavior > No form of empathy > Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her > A display of egotistical and conceited behaviors or attitudes Notice how freaking subjective these criteria are. To an extent, all mental health disorders use subjective criteria, but given that personality disorders roughly translate (in the court of social opinion) into ‘‘you are a bad person’’ I think it’s especially relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/202 "2017-11-06T02:21:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’ll probably be unsurprised to learn that I’m not convinced by your personal anecdotes or the Internet rumors you’re recycling here. Thats fine. Trump’s behavior makes far more sense if you assume he has narcissistic personality disorder and dementia. As the article I posted showed, most of the people who investigated saw a serious decline in his cognitive abilities in the last 30 years. If, like Reagan it turns out after he leaves office that he had dementia the whole time he was president I and most people won’t be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/203 "2017-11-06T02:27:30Z")
I dunno about dementia. But it’s not like a forced choice between ‘‘either you know Trump personally and have officially diagnosed him’’ or ‘‘you have zero credibility.’’ ‘‘Trump has Narcissistic Personality Disorder’’ is a perfectly reasonable conclusion for anyone with a firm grounding in mental health disorders. It’s not ironclad, it’s not unassailable, but it is completely reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/204 "2017-11-06T02:33:49Z")
You cannot put down their optimism. > [@"\[refuse fascism](#): > > ([Act! | RefuseFascism.org](https://refusefascism.org/protests-and-events/))"]The beginning momentum must now be built upon. Refuse Fascism has called for demonstrations next Saturday, November 11 focusing on both the threats of war and actual aggression being carried out, and then another demonstration on November 18, which again brings in the all-round threat posed by this regime to the many targeted groups and to humanity as a whole. Both these days must witness a growing momentum to this movement … So, yeah, come out and march and stuff, on your day off. That will work. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/205 "2017-11-06T05:37:12Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > I thought AI was supposedly better than this already. It’s my job to proofread them…and I’d like to testify that no…they aren’t. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/206 "2017-11-06T05:48:16Z")
And the Devil on one shoulder is whispering… “Invest a bundle in the company that makes those tiki torches! Make a big ol’ pile! Half for hookers and blow, maybe the rest for Doctors Without Borders, if it bothers you…Probably won’t…” ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/207 "2017-11-06T05:50:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Yes, I probably got carried away. > > But I would still like to know how President Trump has affected someone in Australia? I see you ignored my response below and are still pestering the Aussie days later to justify why he is concerned about events in the U.S.: > [@D'Anconia](#): > > As an Australian, why are you so concerned? > [@AI Proofreader](#): > > Seems reasonable to me. They’re our allies. Any conflict we spark they’re probably going to be involved with financially and with the commitment of some of their troops, as they did in Iraq. Since you won’t let up on this, I’d like to also add that your questioning is centered around an unspoken false assumption that something has to affect you, personally, before you have a right to give a shit about it. If, for example, some African nation is massacring an ethnic minority, or a small nation’s economy was on the verge of collapse, I would find it a bit odd if someone asked me “As an American, why are you so concerned?” when I expressed outrage over those events and cast blame on those responsible for it, even though it’s highly unlikely it will ever affect me personally or the nation I live in. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/208 "2017-11-06T13:11:40Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I dunno about dementia. > > But it’s not like a forced choice between ‘‘either you know Trump personally and have officially diagnosed him’’ or ‘‘you have zero credibility.’’ > > ‘‘Trump has Narcissistic Personality Disorder’’ is a perfectly reasonable conclusion for anyone with a firm grounding in mental health disorders. It’s not ironclad, it’s not unassailable, but it is completely reasonable. I’m about the same age as trumps oldest children, so I know a lot of adults about trumps age (65-75 range). None that I can tell experienced anything like the decline Trump has experienced. All are about as sharp now as they were thirty years ago. I remember when Trump ran for the reform party in 2000. He was in his mid 50s and he was far more eloquent and thoughtful than he is now. If the Donald Trump from the 1990s was president I wouldn’t worry nearly as much as I do with Donald Trump from 2017 as president. Back then trumps opinions were far more reasonable and his mental health seemed better. There are multiple YouTube videos of Trump interviews from the 1990s if people want to compare him then vs now. People can watch the 1999 interview with Tim russert for example and compare Trump from 1999 to Trump from 2017. Also keep in mind over 10% of people have dementia by age 70. It isn’t uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/209 "2017-11-06T15:26:23Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/210 "2017-11-06T16:15:03Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > When did Black Lives Matter supporters EVER, EVER deny that white lives matter? Answer: Never. Never, ever. > > I would think that you know this. So why on earth would you pretend that you believe this? The only black lives matter supporters vehemently object to anyone who says, “All Lives Matter”. If the claims that all lives matter is considered wrong, then whose lives are the only black lives matter supporters concerned with? \*Democratic presidential candidate Martin O’Malley apologized on Saturday for saying “All lives matter” while discussing police violence against African-Americans with liberal demonstrators. When they shouted, “Black lives matter!” a rallying cry of protests that broke out after several black Americans were killed at the hands of police in recent months, O’Malley responded: “Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter.” The demonstrators, who were mostly black, responded by booing him and shouting him down.\* [http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politi...ter/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politi...ter/index.html) \*But she’s now facing criticism on social media after using the phrase “all lives matter” — which has been used by some as pushback to the phrase “black lives matter.” The latter phrase, which hung on a banner outside the church, was widely used by protesters in Ferguson and other cities. Before using the phrase, Clinton (ol’ Hillary) was retelling an anecdote about the lessons she learned from her mother. “I asked her, ‘What kept you going?’ Her answer was very simple. Kindness along the way from someone who believed she mattered. All lives matter.” To some in the pews, what Clinton said fell flat. Or worse: “With her statement that all lives matter, that blew a lot of support that she may have been able to engender here,” said Renita Lamkin, a pastor at the St. John AME Church in St. Charles. She is white and while protesting in Ferguson was hit in the gut with a rubber bullet. Her passion comes in part because her children are African-American. “My children matter,” she said. “And I need to hear my president say that the lives of my children matter. That my little black children matter. Because right now our society does not say that they matter. Black lives matter. That’s what she needs to say.”\* [http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpo...l-lives-matter](http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpo...l-lives-matter) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/211 "2017-11-06T17:18:08Z")
Saying “All lives matter” is a way of evading, or at least dissipating, BLM’s point about _anti-black_ racism among police, while still sounding nice and even morally superior. It avoids discussion of the problem rather than advancing it. Clear now? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/212 "2017-11-06T17:29:54Z")
When people say ‘black lives matter’ what they are really saying is ‘black lives also matter’ or ‘black lives matter too’. Historically Americans have not valued black lives nearly as much as other lives, especially compared to white lives. When drugs ravaged the ghetto society said too bad and called for a violent police response. when white communities are ravaged by drugs people call for treatment and understanding. When the unemployment rate among blacks is 10% society doesn’t care (that is the normal black unemployment rate). When it was 10% among whites (like it was during the worst of the great recession) it became a national emergency. Even black on black crime is arguably influenced by the fact that society instills a disrespect for black lives. So blacks internalize that their lives and the lives of their victims don’t matter much. So yes black lives also matter. That is what they are saying. Black lives and black problems deserve the same level of respect and attention we give to white problems. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/213 "2017-11-06T17:33:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was wondering: > > 1. if anyone here planned to attend any of these events. If I had the time to go to one, I would. The amusement factor would be stupendous, even better than watching the monkeys in the zoo. > [@](#): > > 1. (for everyone, regardless of attendance) Do you think this is it - the big movement that’s finally going to sweep Trump from office? Personally I expect this will have fizzled out by mid-next-week with some minor vandalism near a few of the locations listed, but I’m trying to judge if I’m being overly-skeptical. What do you think? You people need to come to grips with reality. Trump is the President and he is going to stay President. Deal with it. No amount of whining or tantrum-throwing or street protests is going to change that basic fact. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/214 "2017-11-06T17:37:34Z")
When people say “all lives matter” they are saying “black lives matter too”. Clear now? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/215 "2017-11-06T17:51:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > When people say “all lives matter” they are saying “black lives matter too”. With the implication that there really is no problem that needs confronting or fixing. Otherwise why would they object to anyone saying “black lives matter”? Then it would be simply a truism, not needing any correction or update. Glad to help. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/216 "2017-11-06T17:56:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You people need to come to grips with reality. Trump is the President and he is going to stay President. Deal with it. No amount of whining or tantrum-throwing or street protests is going to change that basic fact. It might help, over time. As for me, I will never _accept_ that Trump is president. I understand that currently he holds that office. That fact is disgraceful and embarrassing. It’s not normal, healthy, or–frankly–comprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/217 "2017-11-06T18:01:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > When people say “all lives matter” they are saying “black lives matter too”. > > Clear now? > > Regards, > Shodan The people you say this to find it condescending and dismissive. If you are upset because you lost your job and someone who has a job and a track record of regressive attitudes about unemployed people says ‘lots of people are jobless’ they are saying you are jobless too. Doesn’t make it any less dismissive. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/218 "2017-11-06T18:04:49Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You people need to come to grips with reality. Trump is the President and he is going to stay President. Deal with it. No amount of whining or tantrum-throwing or street protests is going to change that basic fact. Trump deserves the same level of loyalty and respect that you guys have shown the Obamas and Clintons. Also if the gop congress can investigate benghazi a half dozen times, everything even remotely controversial Trump and his inner circle have ever done in their entire lives before and during their time in office needs to be investigated at least a half dozen times too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/219 "2017-11-06T18:12:11Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Trump deserves the same level of loyalty and respect that you guys have shown the Obamas and Clintons. Even though they more than earned it and he has not even begun. In the military, those who dislike a ranking officer are told to “Salute the uniform”. I will always give loyalty and respect to the \*office \*of the President, even if its current occupant does not. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/220 "2017-11-06T18:15:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > When people say “all lives matter” they are saying “black lives matter too”. > > Clear now? > > Regards, > Shodan Correct. _All Lives Matter, and since Black Lives amount to approximately 8% of All Lives (with respect to the traditional three-fifths calculation enshrined in The Constitution), the importance of those lives shall be prioritized according to their demographic prominence and addressed when we get around to it._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432.md?page=12)