# Nov 4 - This Nightmare Must End: The Trump/Pence Regime Must Go! protest **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432 "2017-11-01T20:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/21 "2017-11-02T15:00:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush are “vanilla GOP.” Even sensible right-wingers like John Boehner might be considered “vanilla.” Pence and Ryan ? :eek: I won’t try to characterize their flavors but neither is vanilla! :rolleyes: Vanilla with nuggets of shit? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/22 "2017-11-02T16:04:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > It would certainly be sad if the protests develop into another fizzled joke like OWS or BLM. I agree with this, except I would change “would” to “will”, “sad” to “completely predictable”, and “if” to “when”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/23 "2017-11-02T16:05:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Calling Trump a fascist is a stretch. Authoritarian tendencies? Yes. But he doesn’t have the power or leverage to be a true dictator like he would like to be. I don’t know if I’ve ever called Trump a fascist (don’t think I have) but Trump is a fascist the same way Bernie Sanders is a communist. He is on the continuum, but nowhere near as extreme or powerful as that term implies. > > Also I don’t see how a protest will change it. The march on January 21st didn’t change anything. We should be worried about voting in November 2018 to take back the house. That will actually accomplish something. With a house under democratic control we can stall Trump’s legislative agenda, and we can conduct legitimate investigations into Trump, Russia, money laundering, etc. > > Investigations at multiple levels (state, federal, local, congress, law enforcement, special counsels, independent counsels, etc), taking congress back, hoping the judiciary reins in Trump, etc are what actually matters. > > Do protests actually accomplish anything in America? Or petitions? I know its better to do that than not to do that, but does it actually change anything? Do you think that there are “true fascists” that we can look back at and tease out from the wannabes? Aren’t they all wannabes who have some breaks fall for them? You seem cavalier about finding out. What is the actual distinction you are making, between donald and a true fascist? Is it really to do with donald, or just his limitations in what he can do this year? If it’s just the barriers that exist in front of things that he wants this year, that has nothing to do with his character. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/24 "2017-11-02T17:43:26Z")
No cites, but BLM absolutely changed a lot of people’s attitudes, and many local dialogues and even policies. OWL maybe not as much, but it got a lot of people thinking about important things, likely to some effect. I personally would like to see both have a bigger outcome, but nor should we equate “no longer marching in the streets” with “didn’t achieve anything.” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/25 "2017-11-02T17:56:34Z")
(I obviously meant OWS, not OWL. Three years after moving from Kansas, and I still have **O** ld **W** est **L** awrence on the brain!) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/26 "2017-11-02T18:02:24Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > OWL maybe not as much, but it got a lot of people thinking about important things, likely to some effect. I personally would like to see both have a bigger outcome, but nor should we equate “no longer marching in the streets” with “didn’t achieve anything.” Agreed, the Bernie movement was essentially and extension of OWS. And I would submit that a portion of Trump’s “drain the swamp” and “Hillary is in the pocket of Wall Street” message resonated with a contingent that overlaps with the OWS principles. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/27 "2017-11-02T18:08:32Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Do you think that there are “true fascists” that we can look back at and tease out from the wannabes? Aren’t they all wannabes who have some breaks fall for them? You seem cavalier about finding out. > > What is the actual distinction you are making, between donald and a true fascist? Is it really to do with donald, or just his limitations in what he can do this year? If it’s just the barriers that exist in front of things that he wants this year, that has nothing to do with his character. Precisely my reasoning. Trump himself is a Fascist, but the current Trump administration is not Fascist due to political circumstance rather than desire. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/28 "2017-11-02T18:12:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > if anyone here planned to attend any of these events. I’m not. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think this is it - the big movement that’s finally going to sweep Trump from office? Personally I expect this will have fizzled out by mid-next-week with some minor vandalism near a few of the locations listed, but I’m trying to judge if I’m being overly-skeptical. What do you think? No, I feel this is a protest for people who like protesting. But I don’t seeing it moving any numbers on the American political meter. Trump’s Presidency is not an obscure issue that needs to have attention called to it. And nobody disputes he has a sizable body of people who oppose him, so there’s no need for a “count the numbers” campaign. There are two groups that control how long Trump will stay in office. The first is the Republican majority in Congress; they won’t change their minds or be replaced because of this protest. The second group is Trump’s base. And the reason they’re Trump’s base is because they don’t follow the news. They’ll believe whatever Trump tells them. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/29 "2017-11-02T18:30:57Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > No cites, but BLM absolutely changed a lot of people’s attitudes,” (post shortened) No cites, but the only black lives matter supporters seem to piss off a lot of people when they deny that white lives matter, or blue lives matter, or gay lives matter. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/30 "2017-11-02T18:55:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > No cites, but the only black lives matter supporters seem to piss off a lot of people when they deny that white lives matter, or blue lives matter, or gay lives matter. Of course no cites because they don’t say that. They just say black lives matter, too. Notice how when a white terrorist kills 8 people, the cops can shoot him once in the abdomen and they can take him in to custody, as they should. But let a black child play with a toy gun in a park, and he’s shot dead within 5 seconds of the arrival of the cops, who have to empty their guns into him. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/31 "2017-11-02T19:03:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Of course no cites because they don’t say that. (post shortened) Or no cite because the person I was resonding to, **JKellyMap** , provided no cite for his/her posted opinion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/32 "2017-11-02T19:29:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > No cites, but the only black lives matter supporters seem to piss off a lot of people when they deny that white lives matter, or blue lives matter, or gay lives matter. I know of no organization called “only black lives matter”, and I know of no organization that denies that white/blue/gay lives matter. Why not talk about organizations that exist in the real world, with real-world names? That’d be helpful, since we’re not all privy to whatever fantasies go on in **doorhinge’s** head. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/33 "2017-11-02T19:53:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Of course no cites because they don’t say that. They just say black lives matter, too. Notice how when a white terrorist kills 8 people, the cops can shoot him once in the abdomen and they can take him in to custody, as they should. But let a black child play with a toy gun in a park, and he’s shot dead within 5 seconds of the arrival of the cops, who have to empty their guns into him. You might want to fact-check yourself on the claim of “empty their guns into him”. I believe the police actually fired more than twice as many shots at Saipov than Rice, they’re just not very good shots. TL;DR = This has significantly more to do with the NYPD’s lack of basic marksmanship skills than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/34 "2017-11-02T21:57:01Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Do you think that there are “true fascists” that we can look back at and tease out from the wannabes? Aren’t they all wannabes who have some breaks fall for them? You seem cavalier about finding out. > > What is the actual distinction you are making, between donald and a true fascist? Is it really to do with donald, or just his limitations in what he can do this year? If it’s just the barriers that exist in front of things that he wants this year, that has nothing to do with his character. I’m honestly not sure. I believe Trump and his followers (about half his voters) are one of the biggest threats facing modern America up there with climate change and Islamic terrorism. So I’m not blind to the risk Trump and a sizable chunk of the GOP base pose to our country and values. But I can’t really explain what the difference is between Trump and someone I’d consider a fascist. I guess in part, a fascist has an ideology. Trump is mostly just motivated by narcissism. Also fascists are competent. When Hitler came to power, within a year the Nazis had engineered enough laws and false flag attacks to cement their rule. Trump is dangerously incompetent. In fact, one of the few saving graces of the modern authoritarian GOP is that they are deeply stupid and incompetent. I’d be far more worried if Trump and his brainwashed followers were intelligent. But yes, if Trump and his followers (again, I’d rate about half his voters as cult followers. Hillary was right to call them deplorable) had their way the constitution would be suspended and a lot of our rights would be curtailed. They are authoritarian. I"m not denying Trump and his followers are authoritarian or a threat to the constitution, but I guess I draw a distinction between authoritarian and fascist. I guess I’d compare Trump and his followers/enablers to Erdogan or Kaczyński brothers rather than Mussolini or Hitler. Fascism is more about a united, militant, competent movement with a clear ideological agenda. Trump and his followers aren’t really like that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/35 "2017-11-02T22:12:13Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … But yes, if Trump and his followers (again, I’d rate about half his voters as cult followers. Hillary was right to call them deplorable) had their way the constitution would be suspended and a lot of our rights would be curtailed. … You believe that 30+ million Trump voters would ‘suspend the Constitution’ if they could?!??!!!?! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/36 "2017-11-02T22:24:23Z")
Maybe not, but I do believe that they would support measures that would be tantamount to doing so, especially for _some_ people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/37 "2017-11-02T22:27:25Z")
We can only be sure about those Trump voters who have renounced their support due to Trump’s ignorance of or hostility toward the Constitution. Are either of them available for comment? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/38 "2017-11-02T22:44:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You believe that 30+ million Trump voters would ‘suspend the Constitution’ if they could?!??!!!?! Yes. The fact that they voted for Trump pretty much defines their voting wisdom. Most likely, it wouldn’t be called the “Let’s Suspend the Constitution” movement. They’d give it a name like Restoring American Might. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/39 "2017-11-02T22:45:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You believe that 30+ million Trump voters would ‘suspend the Constitution’ if they could?!??!!!?! I believe 90% of the US population would suspend at least parts of the constitution if they could. I don’t think saying someone would do so means much of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/40 "2017-11-02T22:45:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > No cites, but the only black lives matter supporters seem to piss off a lot of people when they deny that white lives matter, or blue lives matter, or gay lives matter. When did Black Lives Matter supporters EVER, EVER deny that white lives matter? Answer: Never. Never, ever. I would think that you know this. So why on earth would you pretend that you believe this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432.md?page=3)