# Nov 4 - This Nightmare Must End: The Trump/Pence Regime Must Go! protest **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 1, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432 "2017-11-01T20:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/121 "2017-11-04T15:58:02Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Also agree here. Well said. > > What I think we have to look at is where Trumps supporters get their information. And how they discard anything that does not fit into their view, or support their position. > > Just to pick one glaring personality trait of Trump’s, did Trump supporters see him mock the disabled journalist? And if they did, what did they think about that? What does that say about Trump? To me, that speaks volumes. I never had to be taught not to do such a thing. It just isn’t done. > > I would like to hear any Trump supporter on this board share their thoughts about mocking and making fun of the disabled. And from my point of view, I’m well aware that politicians do terrible things all the time. I’m sure Democrats (and Republicans) have done far worse things than mock disabled journalists. But they possess the judgment to do them behind closed doors, they would be ashamed or at least would have the presence of mind to apologize if they were caught, and Trump genuinely seems to take his disgustingness as a point of personal pride. I’m very unhappy with a lot of his actions and a lot of the things he says, but what I find most troubling is his lack of proper judgment and lack of professionalism in choosing when to say them. People who say these kinds of things in any professional capacity should be censured in the court of public opinion, not elected President. That he can say them and not even apologize for them like any decent human being would, and still be lauded is really something to behold. That he can say he just grabs women by the pussy and we have video of him sexually demeaning women and he comments on Hillary Clinton’s ass during a presidential debate and people en masse use the same tired rhetoric they always have to excuse such behavior is beyond disturbing to me. Particularly with my loved ones I feel like they threw me and every sexual assault survivor under the bus, not even for voting for him but for completely denying that the behavior is deeply problematic, not even owning the reality of what he is. It’s sickening. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/122 "2017-11-04T16:02:54Z")
Well, there’s bad in the normal range of bad and then there’s radioactive orange dumpster fire bad. But, yes, the thought that trump might be a transitional figure on the order of Hindenburg or Karensky has occurred to me. Who will Boobus Americanus vote for next when trump can’t drain the wall or swamp her up or whatever three word nostrum de jour is currently being peddled? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/123 "2017-11-04T16:47:58Z")
My nearest opportunity is 3PM today at Union Square in SF. I’m afraid I’m going to miss it, but I’ll look for coverage on the news tonight. I’m sure it’ll be the lead story. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/124 "2017-11-04T17:01:45Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > They deny that he was mocking the disability. What a surprise, huh? I guess Trump just sort of flops his arms around, lolls his head and twists his mouth like that once in a while. Yep. So I have heard. They hand wave it away. Total Bullshit. I would like Hurricane or Octopus to defend Trumps obvious behavior of mocking the disabled. And how that speaks to Trumps emotional maturity. And would like to ask Trump supporters what they would say if their own child did such a thing. Come on, defend it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/125 "2017-11-04T17:20:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Trump is bizarre. But crying wolf or Nazi or racist every 5 seconds about seemingly each and every Republican has diluted your message. Thats your perspective then. But to a lot of us, you are basically just hand waving away all the red flags about Trump. If someone came to your house to date your daughter and he was covered in tattoos, was an ex-con, had a history of domestic violence and had meth mouth and you said ‘see you later sweetie’ and whenever anyone brought it up you replied ‘yeah but remember when she dated that guy who drove the mustang? People got upset about that too’. To us, the fact that you can’t distinguish the two is worrying. It makes us on the left wonder if there is a line or bottom you guys even have that will make you say ‘this is wrong’. Or will you just hand wave everything away? In your mind, you are being rationally cynical and writing off the left who always cry wolf. To us, you are refusing to accept a deranged reality because it doesn’t conform to your ideological agenda. What if Mueller and Schniederman find conclusive evidence of money laundering and Treason by Trump and his family? Will you accept it if they do or will you call it a ‘deep state conspiracy’? Why didn’t George HW Bush or George W Bush vote for him? HW Bush voted for Cinton. Why is that if Trump is ‘just another republican’? Why wouldn’t Bush or his father vote for him if he was just another republican? You may accuse the left of crying wolf about every republican, but on the left a lot of us don’t agree with that. We said some bad things about Bush, but as we keep saying we’d gladly take W Bush or Pence as president over Trump. If what you are saying it true, why is that? When you hand wave away alllllll of Trump’s endless red flags, you just make the rest of us think you aren’t paying attention, or refuse to pay attention because it dilutes your ideological agenda. In your mind we would say the same thing about anyone. But we really wouldn’t. People get hyperbolic on both sides, I agree, but putting the hyperbole aside there is something really, really wrong with Trump on an intellectual, moral, emotional and legal level. Either Trump will cause serious harm to America, or even if he doesn’t, he may set the stage for the next deranged authoritarian. Either way, I think he sets a bad precedent for politics and vastly lowers the standards that the public expect from elected officials. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/126 "2017-11-04T17:29:44Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/127 "2017-11-04T20:05:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You believe that 30+ million Trump voters would ‘suspend the Constitution’ if they could?!??!!!?! As long as the second amendment were left in place, they’d be cool with it. They certainly haven’t raised any fuss with due process being suspended at Guantanamo Bay, or in the detention centers in Chicago, or in the provisions of the NDAA. There goes the 5th and 14th amendments. They haven’t raised any fuss about torture being employed at Gitmo, Adu Ghraib, and elsewhere. Nor are they concerned about the massive prison population, mostly held for long sentences due to mandatory-minimum drug sentences. They clearly don’t care about the 8th amendment. They’re not worried unreasonable search and seizure given attitudes about stop-and-frisk, “show-your-papers” and Real ID laws, or the NSA and CIA gathering data on every single American as revealed by Snowden, the Guccifer 2.0 leak, and others. Oh, and civil asset forfeiture, whereby police gather billions in property every year with no justification, other than “we think you did something shady to get this stuff.” The burden of proof is reversed, and \*you have to bring a legal case why they should give you back the property they took. 0 fucks given for the 4th amendment. They seem fine with integrating religion in government including public schools, and restricting the free speech of those damn “fake news” outlets. Oh, and punishing protestors for, well, protesting, as shown time and time again with every new measure passed to classify them as domestic terrorists, or make it legal to run them over. So much for the 1st amendment. They’d certainly be in favor or getting rid of the 16th amendment, which allows for taxing income. Most of the above is considered to be very \*favorable by the far-right. Law and order, keeping us safe. I think they’d be fine with shredding every amendment as long as they still had a right to their guns… oh, and the 3rd. I think they’d have a problem with having to quarter soldiers in their homes. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/128 "2017-11-04T20:09:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump is probably not the ultimate nightmare that awaits us; rather he’s a wrecking ball to institutions that will make it possible for the white Christian nationalist predators (barely) hiding in the weeds. Trump is dangerous, but more so in the sense that he is breaking down norms and institutions and will cause Americans to forget what a normal, “presidential” president looks and talks like. Like George W Bush, he represents a perpetual lowering of the bar of what passes for an office holder. Quoted for truth. Trump is the symptom, not the disease. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/129 "2017-11-04T20:47:06Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > As long as the second amendment were left in place, they’d be cool with it. > > They certainly haven’t raised any fuss with due process being suspended at Guantanamo Bay, or in the detention centers in Chicago, or in the provisions of the NDAA. There goes the 5th and 14th amendments. > > They haven’t raised any fuss about torture being employed at Gitmo, Adu Ghraib, and elsewhere. Nor are they concerned about the massive prison population, mostly held for long sentences due to mandatory-minimum drug sentences. They clearly don’t care about the 8th amendment. > > They’re not worried unreasonable search and seizure given attitudes about stop-and-frisk, “show-your-papers” and Real ID laws, or the NSA and CIA gathering data on every single American as revealed by Snowden, the Guccifer 2.0 leak, and others. Oh, and civil asset forfeiture, whereby police gather billions in property every year with no justification, other than “we think you did something shady to get this stuff.” The burden of proof is reversed, and \*you have to bring a legal case why they should give you back the property they took. 0 fucks given for the 4th amendment. > > They seem fine with integrating religion in government including public schools, and restricting the free speech of those damn “fake news” outlets. Oh, and punishing protestors for, well, protesting, as shown time and time again with every new measure passed to classify them as domestic terrorists, or make it legal to run them over. So much for the 1st amendment. > > They’d certainly be in favor or getting rid of the 16th amendment, which allows for taxing income. > > Most of the above is considered to be very \*favorable by the far-right. Law and order, keeping us safe. I think they’d be fine with shredding every amendment as long as they still had a right to their guns… oh, and the 3rd. I think they’d have a problem with having to quarter soldiers in their homes. How are “Trump voters” to blame for any of that? All of the things you mentioned began in previous administrations. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/130 "2017-11-04T21:21:35Z")
The Austin Statesman [describes the antifa march](http://www.statesman.com/news/local/antifa-protest-begin-austin-city-hall/ms3IzHMDA4JcEbo5AE5iiP/) as rather anemic. A cluster of about a score of marchers were attended by a battle-flag-waving counter-march of around 75. Sounds like antifa are about as popular as the alt-white. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/131 "2017-11-04T22:00:36Z")
In practice, all recent presidents have done things that are a threat to the constitution. The torture and rendition program started under Clinton and was expanded under Bush. Under Obama you had drone strikes, Snowden leaking the mass surveillance state, etc. So in practice, at the moment, Trump isn’t any worse for the constitution than Obama, Bush or Clinton. But to me, the big difference is that Obama, Clinton and Bush engaged in questionable behavior in a very limited way in furtherance of America’s interests. They were fighting terrorism and trying to stop crime. I know to some people, that doesn’t excuse it. But to me that is a mitigating factor. However Trump wants to upend the constitution in service of his narcissistic disorder. Trump’s desire to clamp down on the media, to reduce the power of the judiciary, opposition to being investigated by the justice department, etc. all comes down to his ego. Not only does Trump pose more of a risk to the constitution than recent presidents, but he wants to upend it for nefarious and dishonorable reasons. He isn’t trying to fight terrorism when he says he is opposed to freedom of the press or freedom of assembly. He is trying to upend the constitution in service of his mental illness and in service of white nationalistic politics. I remember after Obama took over for Bush, some civil libertarians were upset that the left had more or less fallen asleep about civil rights. Their argument was basically that ‘just because Obama is in charge now doesn’t mean the next guy won’t be a danger’. And here we are. Anyway, point being in recent history all presidents did illegal, unconstitutional things. And in practice, for now, Trump isn’t any worse than any of them (if I’m wrong, I’m open to having it explained why). But what is different about Trump is that unlike Clinton, Bush or Obama, Trump wants to restrict the constitution far more liberally and he wants to do is for dishonorable reasons. Its one thing to have a constitutionally questionable surveillance state to fight terrorism. It is another to want to clamp down on a free press because your mental illness makes you oversensitive to criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/132 "2017-11-04T22:23:43Z")
Nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/133 "2017-11-04T22:38:37Z")
So here’s an analogy. Villainous Presidents of days past are typically something like Lex Luthor. They’re bad guys with a clearly defined opponent and a plan. Trump is Heath Ledger’s Joker. And I am Batman. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/134 "2017-11-04T23:00:00Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So here’s an analogy. Villainous Presidents of days past are typically something like Lex Luthor. They’re bad guys with a clearly defined opponent and a plan. > > Trump is Heath Ledger’s Joker. > And I am Batman. Yep. Also, lol at the small print. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/135 "2017-11-04T23:00:17Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > It is another to want to clamp down on a free press because your mental illness makes you oversensitive to criticism. You don’t know that he has a mental illness. You’re not his doctor, you’ve never met him, and you’ve never examined him. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/136 "2017-11-04T23:05:22Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t know that he has a mental illness. You’re not his doctor, you’ve never met him, and you’ve never examined him. It’s a lot more comforting to think of him as mentally ill. If everything he says and does is the result of a rational, considered thought process, you lose considerable faith in humanity. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/137 "2017-11-04T23:15:22Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t know that he has a mental illness. You’re not his doctor, you’ve never met him, and you’ve never examined him. It’s true, he could just be faking it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/138 "2017-11-04T23:28:15Z")
Been a while since I checked in on this thread, everybody OK? No casualties? Looks like we dodged the ballet! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/139 "2017-11-05T00:06:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t know that he has a mental illness. You’re not his doctor, you’ve never met him, and you’ve never examined him. I’m not an engineer either but I can tell when a bridge is collapsed. Trumps behavior fits symptoms of people with a narcissistic disorder (either narcissistic personality disorder or malignant narcissism) and dementia. There is enough reason to speculate. If Trump wants to end the rumors about his mental health he can submit to legitimate, objective medical exams including a full neurological workup. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432/140 "2017-11-05T00:55:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’m not an engineer either but I can tell when a bridge is collapsed. > > Trumps behavior fits symptoms of people with a narcissistic disorder (either narcissistic personality disorder or malignant narcissism) and dementia. There is enough reason to speculate. > > If Trump wants to end the rumors about his mental health he can submit to legitimate, objective medical exams including a full neurological workup. Since internet rumors about Trump’s mental health from anonymous people with unknown motives won’t actually change the fact that Trump is president and a real diagnosis might I’m sure Trump can live with the former. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nov-4-this-nightmare-must-end-the-trump-pence-regime-must-go-protest/800432.md?page=8)