Nova's Documentary on the Dover Schoolboard Suit on PBS

[What_Exit]

@vibrotronica

The Memphis public television station WKNO wouldn’t air this episode!

I stick up for Memphis all the time, I watch a fair share of public telelvision, and NOVA has been one of my favorite shows since I was a kid. But today, I say fuck this city.

That is truly sad. Did they issue any form of explanation?

[Liberal]

@What Exit?

That is truly sad. Did they issue any form of explanation?

According to their schedule, they aired it on their High Definition channel, which is the same thing they did in this area. It was filmed with HD equipment, but I guess it could be converted over.

ETA:

See Tuesday, 11/13, 8:00 PM. Click on “Nova” for synopsis.

[What_Exit]

@Liberal

According to their schedule, they aired it on their High Definition channel, which is the same thing they did in this area. It was filmed with HD equipment, but I guess it could be converted over.

ETA:

See Tuesday, 11/13, 8:00 PM. Click on “Nova” for synopsis.

So, not so sad then. This is why it pays to ask extra questions before jumping off the handle. We saw it in HD, I have no clue if the standard PBS stations showed it near me.

Jim

[ralph124c]

I saw a bit of this, and was amazed that people were so divided about this. The europeans must be laughing their heads off-a local school in trouble for teaching evolution? First-the Bible (Genesis) doesn’t get into details-it does not state that the earth is only 6000 years old. Second, what exactly is 'intelligent design"is the human lumbar structure intelligent design?
Still amazed at all of this-you would think that people would get over this by now!

[Duke_of_Rat]

@vibrotronica

The Memphis public television station WKNO wouldn’t air this episode!

I stick up for Memphis all the time, I watch a fair share of public telelvision, and NOVA has been one of my favorite shows since I was a kid. But today, I say fuck this city.

At the end of the episode, they said that you could watch any or all of this or any other NOVA program on the NOVA website.

I’ll have to see if my local PBS station aired it, I get my PBS feed via Direct TV (but no HD programming)

[ShadowFacts]

@CJJ*

In the end the ID proponents in the case (with the exception of the magnanimous lawyer from the Thomas More center) were reduced to sputtering insults as they skulked off stage, an indictment for perjury looming. That crack from the ex-school-board member that the judge in this case must have gone to “clown college” is the textbook definition of sour grapes; I would expect better behavior from my four-year-old.

Watched a re-air last night, and I enjoyed it immensely, particularly this part you mention. Because that’s where he showed his true colors. He tried so hard throughout his interviews to seem reasonable and only interested in “presenting both sides of the story” etc etc. Then he lost the case and his true nature busted out. Chump.

Also, that woman at the beginning who said something like (paraphrase): “God said it in the Bible and that’s all I need to know.” Yikes!

[Tuckerfan]

@ralph124c

I saw a bit of this, and was amazed that people were so divided about this. The europeans must be laughing their heads off-a local school in trouble for teaching evolution? First-the Bible (Genesis) doesn’t get into details-it does not state that the earth is only 6000 years old. Second, what exactly is 'intelligent design"is the human lumbar structure intelligent design?
Still amazed at all of this-you would think that people would get over this by now!

Sadly, no, and the Europeans are being invaded by these drooling idiots.

[vibrotronica]

Yes, they showed it on the HD channel, but they didn’t broadcast it over the air, which they do with every other episode of NOVA. If you tuned in on the non-HD cable channel–which is how the vast majority of people in Memphis view WKNO–expecting to see NOVA in its usual time slot, you got “Art of the Western World.” And there has been some outcry about it.

Looking ahead in the schedule, it looks like they are going to broadcast it, but not in prime time.

[Jophiel]

@Duke of Rat

At the end of the episode, they said that you could watch any or all of this or any other NOVA program on the NOVA website.

I’ll have to see if my local PBS station aired it, I get my PBS feed via Direct TV (but no HD programming)

The website says that the full 108min episode would be available online on the 16th. I didn’t even know about this program (the ID one, not NOVA in general) so I look forward to seeing it this weekend.

[Raygun99]

@CJJ*

Such a class would more likely be about discovering the basics of the scientific method. Here’s a sample, assuming a class of 3rd graders: Have a demo with various objects placed in a tank of water and play “Will it float?” with the kids. After a few attempts, have them advance theories about what determines whether or not an object will float. You’ll get a lot of wrong ideas, but help the kids clearly define what they’re saying (e.g. “Things that are heavy sink.” “OK, so if something is over a certain weight, it will sink; lighter than that it will float?”), then produce an example that contradicts their supposition “Hmmm…but don’t large ships float, and they’re heavier than this penny that sank…”).

Lather, rinse, repeat. Eventually kids will get the idea that their notions should be bumped up against reality in a controlled way, an important plank in the scientific world-view. Starting them off by defining “buoyancy” and “density” would be the wrong approach.

A really tricky teacher would–as soon as the class had developed a firm idea of buoyancy–drop a geode into the water. The class might at first be amazed that a rock floats, but the smart teacher would use it as an opportunity to show that–even when contrary to common sense–scientific principles remain consistent; we don’t need to say the stone is “magical” to explain what is only an apparent contradiction.

So what you’re saying is, we should hire David Letterman to teach elementary school science?

[Captain_Lance_Murdoch]

I saw part of this show, but didn’t see the end.

What I wonder is, what has been the upshot of all of this? It seems to me that ID reached it’s high-water mark shortly before this when Pres. Bush endorsed it being taught in public schools. Then this case was decided and the impression I get is that ID took a really big hit. I just don’t hear as much about it as I used to. Not that it’s gone away, of course, but the wind seems to have gone out of its sails to a noticeable extent. I am not really all that much in touch with anti-scientific people, however, and maybe I’m not getting an accurate read on things.

[What_Exit]

@Captain Lance Murdoch

I saw part of this show, but didn’t see the end.

What I wonder is, what has been the upshot of all of this? It seems to me that ID reached it’s high-water mark shortly before this when Pres. Bush endorsed it being taught in public schools. Then this case was decided and the impression I get is that ID took a really big hit. I just don’t hear as much about it as I used to. Not that it’s gone away, of course, but the wind seems to have gone out of its sails to a noticeable extent. I am not really all that much in touch with anti-scientific people, however, and maybe I’m not getting an accurate read on things.

My only reliable contact in the “We don’t believe in evolution” world, did not like ID anyway. She says it is all about faith and ID is just bad science and a believer wouldn’t need bad science.

Jim

[Musicat]

I found the program excellent.

If I said, “It’s an imaginative story that has been spun on the basis of very little evidence,” you would think that I was talking about ID theory, right? But it’s an exact quote from ID proponent Phillip Johnson and he’s talking about Darwinism.

Some very minor program weaknesses. I felt that the frequent statements like “Life is too complex to have happened at random” (Buckingham) could have been countered by showing that evolution never makes that claim, and ID proponents misunderstand science in a major way.

I also would have liked to see a comparison between other religious theories including those of antiquity with today’s ID. The world is full of fanciful ideas how life began and creatures appeared; ID/creationism is just one of many. It has nothing more to offer than any of the other fantasies, it just happens to be the one currently favored by the dominant religion in this country, and it didn’t become such by accumulation of evidence.

[Auntbeast]

Thank you for letting us know about this. I’m waiting for my TIVO to update the program info so hopefully I can catch it.

I’m very thrilled to read dopers reactions to it.

YAY Team!

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Musicat

I also would have liked to see a comparison between other religious theories including those of antiquity with today’s ID. The world is full of fanciful ideas how life began and creatures appeared; ID/creationism is just one of many. It has nothing more to offer than any of the other fantasies, it just happens to be the one currently favored by the dominant religion in this country, and it didn’t become such by accumulation of evidence.

You mean ID was… selected?

[Liberal]

@Bryan Ekers

You mean ID was… selected?

But not naturally. We can’t be haven’t an agent of any sort making selections.

[Barrett_Bonden]

@Liberal

But not naturally. We can’t be haven’t an agent of any sort making selections.

Sure we can. . .just not an intelligent one!

D&R

[Find_Friends]

@Tuckerfan

No doubt as much as they comprehend the Bible.

Good point.

Here are some passages they may not be aware of. Or if they do, it might be fascinating to see how they rationalize what’s in The Good Book.

From http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan

ATROCITIES

1sa. 15:3, 7-8 “This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass …’ And Saul … utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.”

1sa. 15:33 “Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord …”

1sa. 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: “Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands.”

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.
VULGARITIES:

2 Sam. 6:14, 16, 20-23 David dances and exposes himself to his maids. (His wife, Michal rebukes him for having done so, and as a consequence she is made barren.)

PRECEPTS:

Lev. 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned.

ABSURD:

Gen. 32:24-30 God takes part in a wrestling match. He wins by injuring Jacob’s hip.

Ex. 12:30 The Lord kills all the first-born of Egypt and there is not a house where there is not at least one dead. (This means that there was not a house in Egypt that did not include at least one first-born—a most unusual situation.)

Ex. 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as about 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of more than 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt at a time when the whole population of Egypt was less than 2,000,000

2 Chron. 7:5, 8-9 Solomon sacrificed 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep in one week. This is 845+ animals per hour, 14+ animals per minute, for seven days straight.

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True Blue Jack

[Tuckerfan]

@Barrett Bonden

Sure we can. . .just not an intelligent one!

D&R

Oh, I think there’s ample evidence of that!

[Liberal]

@True Blue Jack

Good point.

Here are some passages they may not be aware of. Or if they do, it might be fascinating to see how they rationalize what’s in The Good Book.

From http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan

ATROCITIES

1sa. 15:3, 7-8 “This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass …’ And Saul … utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.”

1sa. 15:33 “Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord …”

1sa. 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: “Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands.”

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.
VULGARITIES:

2 Sam. 6:14, 16, 20-23 David dances and exposes himself to his maids. (His wife, Michal rebukes him for having done so, and as a consequence she is made barren.)

PRECEPTS:

Lev. 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned.

ABSURD:

Gen. 32:24-30 God takes part in a wrestling match. He wins by injuring Jacob’s hip.

Ex. 12:30 The Lord kills all the first-born of Egypt and there is not a house where there is not at least one dead. (This means that there was not a house in Egypt that did not include at least one first-born—a most unusual situation.)

Ex. 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as about 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of more than 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt at a time when the whole population of Egypt was less than 2,000,000

2 Chron. 7:5, 8-9 Solomon sacrificed 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep in one week. This is 845+ animals per hour, 14+ animals per minute, for seven days straight.

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True Blue Jack

Just curious. Which aesthetic of the documentary did your post address? The lighting? The photography? The casting director?