# Novel subplots you'd like to see expanded into a independent, book-length story. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617 "2010-09-30T16:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/1 "2010-09-30T16:33:35Z")
That seems clear enough. But I’ll set down a few guidelines anyway: 1. Please be kind enough to give the full name of the novel in question, along with the name of its author. Wikipedia, Amazon, and other such links are encourage. 2. Please specify if you want to see the original author’s take on the subplot or would rather another specific writer flesh it out. Alternatively you can just tell us how you’d flesh out the subplot, WITHOUT changing the larger story. 3. Novels only please. I’m in one of those moods in which I categorically hate movies. 🙂 4. I’m looking for subplots that occur in the timeline of the novels, not backstory or sequels. Anybody? Bueller? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/2 "2010-09-30T16:47:46Z")
[The World According to Garp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_According_to_Garp) by John Irving. The character of Ellen James, who is mentioned early but comes into the novel very late, deserves her own novel. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/3 "2010-09-30T16:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > That seems clear enough. But I’ll set down a few guidelines anyway: Guidelines? More like a straitjacket. You seem awfully picky about what you’ll accept. I suspect you’d get a few more responses if you allowed in movies, and maybe other media. But, in any case, if this is important to you, you might want to provide an example or two of your own , as a f’rinstance. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/4 "2010-09-30T16:49:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > [The World According to Garp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_According_to_Garp) by John Irving. The character of Ellen James, who is mentioned early but comes into the novel very late, deserves her own novel. Do you want to know what Irving would do with her, or somebody else? What additional details would you like? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/5 "2010-09-30T16:51:13Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > That seems clear enough. But I’ll set down a few guidelines anyway: > > Guidelines? More like a straitjacket. You seem awfully picky about what you’ll accept. I suspect you’d get a few more responses if you allowed in movies, and maybe other media. Oh, I fully expect people to ignore my guidelines by post 10. 😃 And I don’t see how the other three items are straightjackets. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/6 "2010-09-30T16:52:00Z")
Irving would be fine. Like most of his characters, Irving gives her a life story most people could not make up. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/7 "2010-10-01T06:34:23Z")
I’ve always wondered where Gandalf ran off to during the Hobbit, but I get the impression from reading other people post about it that Tolkein covered that already somewhere else. In The Courts of the Sun has a time travel mission, before which there is a test run. The traveller from the test run leaves behind a cryptic message that is never explained. it would be interesting to get that story. Although supposedly it’s the first book in a trilogy, so perhaps they will come back to that. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/8 "2010-10-01T16:57:44Z")
I think John Neufeld’s **Lisa Bright and Dark** could use a retelling from Lisa’s point of view. I mean, who cares about her stupid friend narrator and her Paul Newman crush? Lisa the schizophrenic was much more interesting, and you only got glimpses of her through the text. Lisa’s mental illness was the whole point of the story, and Lisa’s barely even a presence in it. The new story would be far down on my list to actually read though. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/9 "2010-10-01T17:17:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Guidelines? More like a straitjacket. You seem awfully picky about what you’ll accept. I suspect you’d get a few more responses if you allowed in movies, and maybe other media. Better that than people just listing a dozen books/movies with no points to make at all, as is so often the case. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/10 "2010-10-01T17:53:56Z")
This is a case of ‘wow, this book sucked and I really wish I could have gotten 700 pages of this subplot instead because even though it would be soul-suckingly boring it would be better than what we got’: I would rather have read 700 pages of treaties and boring ‘keep the country going’ meetings C-Span style with Alais and Barquiel L’Envers than what actually became Jacqueline Carey’s _Kushiel’s Mercy_. Why? You seen Rome? You know how Atia was through most of the 2nd season and then what she did in the finale? Yeah, I wanted epic like that for Melisande. Instead, we got…a lioness turning into a boring housecat? Please. This woman tried to grab the throne multiple times, (implied) murdered multiple husbands, manipulated her family to turn against each other, escaped from multiple prisons, was high up in an international spy ring, and was basically running a giant real person chess game most of her life and then when she pops out a kid she decides to retire to a remote island, leaving behind all her ambitions? So yeah, following the subplot would have avoided having to find out what happened in the spoiler tags. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/11 "2010-10-01T17:58:13Z")
Also, I think **Gone With the Wind: Mammy’s Story** would be a natural. Maybe written by Donald Bogle who wrote **Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies, and Bucks**. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/12 "2010-10-01T18:01:24Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I’ve always wondered where Gandalf ran off to during the Hobbit, but I get the impression from reading other people post about it that Tolkein covered that already somewhere else. Gandalf & the White Council were off driving the Necromancer out of Mirkwood. It’s explicit or at least very strongly implied in the Hobbit; during the denouement he says as much to Bilbo (though without using the the term _White Council_). ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/13 "2010-10-01T18:09:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Gandalf & the White Council were off driving the Necromancer out of Mirkwood. It’s explicit or at least very strongly implied in the Hobbit; during the denouement he says as much to Bilbo (though without using the the term _White Council_). Personally I always wanted the full stories of the other Istari. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/14 "2010-10-01T18:15:03Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Gandalf & the White Council were off driving the Necromancer out of Mirkwood. It’s explicit or at least very strongly implied in the Hobbit; during the denouement he says as much to Bilbo (though without using the the term _White Council_). > > Personally I always wanted the full stories of the other Istari. All four, or just the Blue Wizards? Because I’m not sure Radagast has much to share beyond the odd tip on bestiality, and frankly I can do without those. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/15 "2010-10-01T18:28:25Z")
It might be interesting to see more about Luca Brasi from _The Godfather_. I’m not sure if he could carry his own book as a character; perhaps a second-person study of his exploits from the perspective of the hunted? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/16 "2010-10-02T07:17:05Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I think John Neufeld’s **Lisa Bright and Dark** could use a retelling from Lisa’s point of view. Was Charlotte Light and Dark from Six Feet Under a homage to that?? ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/17 "2010-10-02T17:00:50Z")
Hunger Games/Catching Fire (Collins). The whole book is Katniss going “oh woe is me!” and “oh noes there are two guys in love with me whatever shall I do???” and “everyone is talking about rebellion but I’m not even going to think about rebellion la la la!” … Haymitch has by far the more interesting story. I’d love to hear about what was going on from his point of view. (And he’d probably concur about Katniss being whiny as all heck, which wouldn’t hurt either.) While Katniss is busy whining, Haymitch is planning and carrying out a massive rebellion with all of his buddies from previous Hunger Games years, while simultaneously pretending to just be a dead drunk. I mean, how much more interesting is that than the love triangle? ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/18 "2010-10-02T20:29:20Z")
Of Beren and Luthien was kind of short and I have no doubt it would have made an epic story. So I wouldn’t be opposed to resurrecting Tolkien to write that. And, while I’m sure the lay is quite nice, I want it as a novel. Short of that, maybe we can get William Goldman to write an abridged version of it. The Elvish Bride, Tolkien’s Classic Tale of True Love and High Adventure. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/19 "2010-10-03T01:47:47Z")
And it might be interesting to tell “The Godfather” from Johnny Fontanne or Lucy Mancini’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617/20 "2010-10-03T01:53:04Z")
In one of the Sharpe stories (sort of a army soldier Horneblower) we meet the head of the British secret service. Lord Somebody who is as gay as Christmas. He is shunned and underestimated by all the characters. He is ruthlessly efficient and a stone-cold killer. Wonderful character and well worth a novel. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novel-subplots-youd-like-to-see-expanded-into-a-independent-book-length-story/555617.md?page=2)