# Novels that are largely padding **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2009, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015 "2009-11-18T10:21:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/61 "2009-11-19T01:16:18Z")
For some reason (of course it’s been a decade or more since I read it) I really enjoyed that about Scarlet Letter- it was as if you had all this information, details, and formal story but in the middle of it was this wild, weird woman and her bizarre child. I don’t know, worked for me then- maybe should give it another try to see if it still holds up. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/62 "2009-11-19T02:56:09Z")
Reading _The Scarlet Letter_ for the plot is like reading a graphic novel and never looking at the pictures. You could come out of it with a fair summary of what happened, but you would have rather missed the point. It’s a series of amazing images that have layer and layer of meaning when viewed in different lights, and you have to stop and look at those images, both by themselves and in context with each other. You have to enjoy looking at the images for their own sake, not because they reveal plot or character, but because they reveal universal things about human nature and the human experience. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/63 "2009-11-19T15:21:08Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Certainly the Twilight books, which I read on a dare, and of which I probably ended up reading only about a third of the content. What, you mean you didn’t find the scene where Bella makes chicken enchilladas to be thoroughly engrossing? As tedious as it was I could at least understand why the endless “OMG, Edward is so hot!” stuff was in the book, it’s just a kind of chaste pornography. But there’s no similar justification for detailed descriptions of Bella’s domestic chores. I suspect the author just kept getting distracted from her novel with thoughts of what she was going to make for dinner that night. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/64 "2009-11-19T15:32:08Z")
Donaldson’s _Thomas “I’m a leper!” Covenant series_, May’s _Galactic Milieu series_, and every HP book post _Prisoner of Azkaban_ strike me as good examples of why writers need editors (who can actually influence them) as these would all (IMHO) have benefited from some significant and judicious slimming and trimming. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/65 "2009-11-19T15:50:24Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > What, you mean you didn’t find the scene where Bella makes chicken enchilladas to be thoroughly engrossing? > > As tedious as it was I could at least understand why the endless “OMG, Edward is so hot!” stuff was in the book, it’s just a kind of chaste pornography. But there’s no similar justification for detailed descriptions of Bella’s domestic chores. I suspect the author just kept getting distracted from her novel with thoughts of what she was going to make for dinner that night. Because Bella is the Mary Sue to end all Mary Sues and must therefore be slavishly followed by the narrative throughout the book. Ms. Meyer has tens of thousands of tweeners hanging by their fingernails off of her personal fantasy avatar’s story. ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/66 "2009-11-21T10:14:26Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Let us not forget the repetition of describing Ayla going through the whole routine of “introduce the pet wolf to the nervous residents of yet another village” thing. The entire process described in every. single. village. Ah, those novels that my friend refers to as the “bonking and cups of tea” books. That’s all she does, shag, and make cups of tea. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/67 "2009-11-21T15:56:17Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Donaldson’s _Thomas “I’m a leper!” Covenant series_ Especially the latest series. Twenty pages of more of really stupid conversational mind games that contribute absolutely nothing to the plot, followed by something completely irrelevant, then another 20 pages of stupid mind games that has no bearing on the actual plot. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/68 "2009-11-21T19:07:11Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Donaldson’s _Thomas “I’m a leper!” Covenant series_, May’s _Galactic Milieu series_, and every HP book post _Prisoner of Azkaban_ strike me as good examples of why writers need editors (who can actually influence them) as these would all (IMHO) have benefited from some significant and judicious slimming and trimming. That’s the one I was going to post about. None of them really annoyed me until _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows_, which featured the lead characters spending most of a year wandering around camping in various places to fill a school year. I wish she had abandoned the idea of the school year by that point. It would benefit from a judicious trimming. But for some reason this one, the most padded of all the Harry Potter novels, is going to get two films. _Goblet of Fire_ could have used the time, as could have _The Half-Blood Prince_. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/69 "2009-11-22T04:37:57Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Agree with Jordan, disagree with Martin. > > Jordan can go on for pages about the embroidery in someones tunic, or repeat character tics (Nynaeve tugging on her goddamn braid!) over and over and over. This is definitely padding. The foremost criticism I have had while reading TWOT was “this man needs an editor he’s not sleeping with!” > > Martin doesn’t pad, really. There’s very little pointless description. His characters do tend to wander before they get to the plot point, but that always seems like an author in need of an editor, again. Martin’s problem is that he’s not moving forward on the rest of the series very quickly, not that he’s padding what he is actually publishing. If anything, he’s padding his “timecard” with blogging about freakin’ football instead of writing the novels we want to finish reading. I really think there are some story lines that could have been done in 50 pages what he does in 400 pages. Without spoiling things, there are times where I’m just saying to myself, pick up the pace, get to the city, get reunited or killed or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![breaking-reality](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a8b319/32.png) [@breaking-reality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breaking-reality)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/70 "2009-11-23T15:58:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I came in to mention him. By Book 4, his \*prologues \*were approaching 150 pages. Uh-oh. The Wheel of Time series came highly recommend by a friend of mine, so I added it to my (fairly large) list of books to read. Perhaps I should be moving it to the end of my list? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/71 "2009-11-23T16:38:22Z")
> [@breaking-reality](#): > > Uh-oh. The Wheel of Time series came highly recommend by a friend of mine, so I added it to my (fairly large) list of books to read. Perhaps I should be moving it to the end of my list? My personal opinion: move it aaaaaaaaall the way over to the “never in a million years” end of your list. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/72 "2009-11-23T17:08:24Z")
**Varney the Vampyre: or The Feast of Blood** 1857 penny-dreadful that was a big influence on Bram Stoker’s _Dracula_. The writer was definitely paid by the word. Unlike Fanthorpe, though, he didn’t pad with synonyms lifted from a thesaurus – he simply slowed the action to a glacial pace and added lots of inconsequential bits-of-business, so that moving from dramatic point to dramatic point takes for-freakin’-ever. It’s the same method they use, as far as I can see, to drag out Soap Operas. I’m currently trying to make my way through the verbiage of this book. I hope to get farther than I did the last time I tried. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/73 "2009-11-23T22:20:33Z")
Another vote for Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/74 "2009-11-24T04:17:32Z")
I’m re-reading - well, listening to - the Wheel of Time right now, and I’m trying to decide if I have the balls to start an “In Defense of TWOT” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/75 "2009-11-24T04:40:09Z")
The Harry Potter books from the fourth on out were horribly bloated. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/76 "2009-11-24T19:47:50Z")
Quicksilver, Neal Stephenson. I am somewhere like 200 pages in and the two main characters haven’t been introduced. But I really appreciated the detailed description of vivisecting a dog and listening to it scream as its heart is observed beating through its open chest cavity, and trying to keep it alive as long as possible. (Not.) Agreed on Jean Auel too. I don’t think anything actually happened in the last book. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/77 "2009-11-25T02:18:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Especially the latest series. Twenty pages of more of really stupid conversational mind games that contribute absolutely nothing to the plot, followed by something completely irrelevant, then another 20 pages of stupid mind games that has no bearing on the actual plot. There are \*\*more \*\*Thomas Covenant books?! \ Oh my. :eek: I used to joke that the 6 original novels would have made a fine trilogy… and now there are another 4? Is he getting paid by the word? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/78 "2009-11-25T02:54:12Z")
We did a fake fantasy novel photoshop thing here, once—my entry was Turtledove’s _Daily Grind, Crappy Infrastructure_ (part of the _DGCI Cycle_). To be fair, I’m sure it’s largely meticulously researched, historically accurate daily grinds with crappy infrastructure. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/79 "2009-11-25T03:53:53Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Basically every other chapter of **Moby Dick**. Now, now, the boring prose was there so that the action prose didn’t overwhelm in its flowery language. The Whiteness of the Whale indeed. As for the # of the 666, the book was mostly about people talking about ideas and relationships. For that reason it was interesting on those terms. I cannot imagine anyone reading it for action and not being deeply disappointed. It was Heinlein’s answer to Rand. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015/80 "2009-11-25T04:08:36Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Now, now, the boring prose was there so that the action prose didn’t overwhelm in its flowery language. The Whiteness of the Whale indeed. > > As for the # of the 666, the book was mostly about people talking about ideas and relationships. For that reason it was interesting on those terms. I cannot imagine anyone reading it for action and not being deeply disappointed. It was Heinlein’s answer to Rand. I’m not sure I agree with that interpretation. The “relationships” aspect almost seemed to be Heinlein trying to see what controversial stuff he could get published (Beyond the sex based stuff, both the women in the story seem to be very much of the opinion that The Men Know Best in nearly all matters). The “Ideas” aren’t really discussed either in any more than a passing mention about 70% of the way through, at which point they seemed like the literary equivalent of “A Wizard Did It!” (quite literally) with a dose of deliberate controversy thrown in for good measure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/novels-that-are-largely-padding/518015.md?page=5)