# November 8, 2011 - not a good night for the Right **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377 "2011-11-09T06:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/21 "2011-11-09T19:00:32Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Yes. It applies to all of the places where beer and wine are currently sold. > Until this, Georgia was only one of two (or three) states to restrict alcohol sales in this manner. Liquor stores in my current state of residence (Minnesota) cannot sell booze on Sundays. ☹ Welcome to the 18th century! We do, however, allow grocery stores to sell 3.2 beer on Sundays. ☹ ☹ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/22 "2011-11-09T19:37:42Z")
Maybe in Mississippi they just focused on the “hood” part of “personhood” and figured it must be bad. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/23 "2011-11-09T20:38:35Z")
You’re kind of picking and choosing here, aren’t you? I know Mississippi passed Amendment 27 and won the governorship there (not sure if they recaptured the House, which would be the first time since Reconstruction) and Ohio passed whatever that bill was that lets individuals opt out of the healthcare mandate. I’m sure there are a few more but, admittedly, I didn’t really keep track of more than SB5. [QUOTE=Locrian] Religious groups like Personhood USA are not nearly powerful enough to make people question when it’s their individual rights that are being toyed with. As conservative and religious the Right wants to appear, it’s clear that even the conservatives are individuals, just like the left. Like the rest of us in the US, individuality is just as important. [/quote] Personhood USA? No. The Roman Catholic Church, the National Right to Life and Americans United for Life? Yes. Of course, the refused to endorse the amendment, just like they did in Colorado. In fact, I do believe the RCC actively opposed it. Those are your three major pro-life groups in the U.S.. That probably speaks a lot less to respecting individuality or rights or whatever as it does to considering the amendment a bad strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/24 "2011-11-09T21:45:32Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Personhood USA? No. The Roman Catholic Church, the National Right to Life and Americans United for Life? Yes. Of course, the refused to endorse the amendment, just like they did in Colorado. In fact, I do believe the RCC actively opposed it. Those are your three major pro-life groups in the U.S.. That probably speaks a lot less to respecting individuality or rights or whatever as it does to considering the amendment a bad strategy. I understand your point. Personhood USA is more of an agenda driven organization than the larger and well known right to life groups. Their goal seems to be to get rid of Roe v. Wade if they get enough states to adopt the law. What I am happy about is that the voters in Mississippi voted with their heads and not with their ideals. The privacy of the voting booth seems to bring forward ideals to people. I think a lot of them thought of the “what if” factor if a female friend or relative got pregnant via rape, incest or just having a crappy future dad in the mix. They may have thought you can’t blanket all the situations with a law that is in essence against women’s rights. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/25 "2011-11-10T00:16:01Z")
There were other issues with that “personhood” amendment too…what would have happened with ectopic pregnancies? Would women who suffered miscarriages find themselves in the middle of a criminal investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/26 "2011-11-10T00:43:59Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > Liquor stores in my current state of residence (Minnesota) cannot sell booze on Sundays. ☹ > > Welcome to the 18th century! > > We do, however, allow grocery stores to sell 3.2 beer on Sundays. ☹ ☹ Are you sure you don’t live in Oklahoma? Those are our exact same laws. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/27 "2011-11-10T01:05:44Z")
Incidentally the Mississippi bill would also have given the right to life to clones. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/28 "2011-11-10T01:18:08Z")
No, it wouldn’t have, because clones already have a right to life. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/29 "2011-11-10T02:14:26Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Washington has finally voted out the antiquated notion of state-run liquor stores that prevails here in the PNW. One will now be able to buy booze in regular grocery stores and at member places like Costco. Mini-marts are excluded. It’s positively 19th century of them. Now if Oregon would just follow suit. . . [I’m kinda pumped.](http://www.bevlaw.com/bevlog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/kirkland.jpg) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/30 "2011-11-10T05:13:30Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Incidentally the Mississippi bill would also have given the right to life to clones. I have no idea where you got this idea. What does that even mean - giving the right to life to clones? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/31 "2011-11-10T06:24:41Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > > [@Chefguy](#): > > > > Washington has finally voted out the antiquated notion of state-run liquor stores that prevails here in the PNW. One will now be able to buy booze in regular grocery stores and at member places like Costco. Mini-marts are excluded. It’s positively 19th century of them. Now if Oregon would just follow suit. . . > > [I’m kinda pumped.](http://www.bevlaw.com/bevlog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/kirkland.jpg) 🙂 You’ll _need_ a pump, because this is Costco — and they’ll only sell the stuff by the cask. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/32 "2011-11-10T15:49:07Z")
This may seem a small thing, but the county I live in (Montgomery County, PA), which is the 20th wealthiest county in the US and has always been staunchly Republican, gave the Democrats control of the county government for the first time EVER. Story [here](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/133584878.html). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/33 "2011-11-10T19:41:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, it wouldn’t have, because clones already have a right to life. Not before they are born, they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/34 "2011-11-11T02:08:58Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I have no idea where you got this idea. What does that even mean - giving the right to life to clones? Huh? It said in the original text: > [@](#): > > SECTION 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, “The term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/35 "2011-11-11T03:35:12Z")
If the Personhood amendment passed and a woman had a miscarriage, could she be charged with manslaughter or negligent homicide? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/36 "2011-11-11T04:00:09Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > [Senate Bill 5 repeal sets table for Dems and Obama in 2012](http://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/11/senate_bill_5_repeal_sets_tabl.html) > > [Mississippi voters reject Personhood Amendment](http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20111108/NEWS04/111108042/Mississippi-voters-reject-Personhood-Amendment?odyssey=mod%7Cbreaking%7Ctext%7CHome) > > [Mainers vote to continue Election Day registration](http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/08/politics/early-results-indicate-election-day-voter-registration-restored/) > > [Russell Pearce on verge of historic loss in recall](http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2011/11/08/20111108russell-pearce-recall-trailing-jerry-lewis.html) But I think we all agree the important election was for the Clinton County Legislative District 5 in New York. So you will be happy to hear my uncle was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/37 "2011-11-12T07:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=Qin Shi Huangdi] It said in the original text: > [@](#): > > SECTION 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, “The term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof. [/QUOTE] So I see where the issue of cloning came from, but I’m still not sure what you are saying concerning clones being given the right to life. There hasn’t been a successful human clone I am aware of but are you taking the position a cloned embryo wouldn’t have a right to life? In other words, are you taking the position a cloned embryo could (or should) be terminated and this would somehow be different than a normal embryo being terminated? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/38 "2011-11-12T13:11:15Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > So I see where the issue of cloning came from, but I’m still not sure what you are saying concerning clones being given the right to life. There hasn’t been a successful human clone I am aware of but are you taking the position a cloned embryo wouldn’t have a right to life? In other words, are you taking the position a cloned embryo could (or should) be terminated and this would somehow be different than a normal embryo being terminated? I can’t speak for **Curtis** but, in general, Christians have a problem with cloning as an affront to their god; something about only god can create life and therefore a clone, not created by god, is not life and, as such, doesn’t have the same right to life as a person. It’s dichotomous, to me, that this legislation, the sole purpose of which is to pander to Christians, included a provision for cloning, something ultra-religious Christians are against. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/39 "2011-11-12T19:50:22Z")
One can have laws against cloning and still recognize that someone might do it anyway, in which case you need to decide what to do with the clone. More importantly, cloning _does_ already happen: Identical twins are clones. If they didn’t include that clause, then it would be unclear where life began for an identical twin. Well, really, it’s _still_ unclear, but this way they can at least pretend that it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377/40 "2011-11-13T01:19:25Z")
Everything sucks. Before I was forced to move to South CArolina I was on the ballot for City Council-at-Large. Every. Single. One. of my ballot mates won. For the first time in recorded memory there is not a republican on council. The only two republicans left in office are the Auditor and the Treasurer. I’d have that office now. Dammit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/november-8-2011-not-a-good-night-for-the-right/602377.md?page=3)